The Original American Chopper Fan Forum, and the new, and Original Orange County Choppers on CMT Fan Forum

ghostmonkey · Guru

Jason still being a tool

admin · Member

Here are the comments for the photo:

ghostmonkey · Guru

You cant help but feel a bit sorry for the guy and all he cops. I cant stand him but I'd never post crap on FB about him.

-- Edited by ghostmonkey on Thursday 17th of January 2013 04:53:04 PM

dahammer_57 · Senior Member

There used to be a couple of posters on the old boards who claimed to be "real life" friends of Jason Foole. They would jump in and defend his honor (or lack thereof) every so often. I always suspected Sr's spies or Jason himself posting under alias IDs. This new level of Jason hatorade on OCC's own FB page seems to be relentless with no defenders in site. Unless what we saw on AC was a complete fabrication of his character I can't say that I really feel sorry for him.

98b8532191c04aea5a9c991ccb13bc726f6a9da9_98b8532191c04aea5a9c991ccb13bc726f6a9da9.jpg

1Moparsick0 · Guru

I'm sure some of his behavior was "ginned-up", but honestly some of the animosity against Junior could be believed. If you where him an Paulie IHM was getting 99.1% of the credit of the fame from the designs coming from O.C.C., you'd get that little green eye of jealously an get to a point that you would want a bigger cut in the "Fame Game".

rumple · Senior Member

But Jason is a "real" designer now! Remember the "Change of Heart" episode (AC:SvJ season 3 ep 11) when Jason suddenly turned all professional-like when "designing" the Italian Sports Car (Ferrari) bike?

In an instant, he went from the kind of crude pencil drawings you can find in the bookends of a teenage boy's English textbook, to multi-angle plan views, blueprints and custom 3-D renderings! Senior even announced that Jason had produced "real shop drawings" and said; "he's uh, like, erm... a real ah designer now!"

Don't you remember the tears of pride running down your delicate cheeks and the lump in your throat when you saw how far he had come? (Of course, that could also have been from laughter at Senior pulling such a pathetic ruse.)

It must have been tough, because Jason never did anything remotely like that again. In fact, the very next bike (I believe the Malaysian bike) was whomped up on a McDonald's napkin or whatever... poor Jason. It must be hard when the whole friggin' WORLD thinks you're a tool, and you could have been replaced by a third-grader at any point, to the vast improvement of the company, the show, the bikes... and all you have to do to be reminded of it is go online and type your name.

-- Edited by rumple on Saturday 19th of January 2013 10:16:23 AM

anotheridiot · Guru

Here is a free download link form the safe cnet for all you people saying how easy it is to draw on a computer.

http://download.cnet.com/Inkscape/3000-6675_4-10527269.html

download it for free and post your designs here to see how many could be replaced by a third grader.

no special equipment needed, runs like corel and Adobe Illustrator that I use.

Just understand, if it was that easy, I am sure jr would be doing it.

rumple · Senior Member

Thanks for the link, but I'm not sure how it relates to Jason suddenly becoming some kind of graphic designer genius for one bike and then immediately going back to lame one-offs that even Rick complained about. You did see the Italian Race Car designs, right?

Are you trying to convey that Jason uses that free graphics program from CNET? Is that what you mean? Or do you mean that the zillions of "Jason sucks" or "Jason is a tool" comments on the internet don't count, because people don't know that Jason uses a free graphics program from CNET?

Here's a massive, hi-def picture of Jason standing in front of a wall-full of his cartoonish "designs." Maybe it would help if you could point out which one(s) he created with a computer graphics program and which one(s) he scrawled with colored pencils. (Golly, where's those fantastic drawings he supposedly did for the Ferrari bike? You'd think he'd put those up, wouldn't you?)

And what does any of this have to do with Paulie? Should Paulie and/or a third-grader try the free graphics program from CNET so they'll be as good as Jason? Which Jason? The one who created the superb 3D airbrush rendering of a single bike (along with professional shop drawings and blueprints), or the bozo who spews crap that would embarrass a third-grader onto notebook paper with colored pencils? Did Paulie claim to produce professional, detailed 3D airbrushed renderings of a single bike, then never do so again? I must have missed that one.

Got a link?

anotheridiot · Guru

No, I am not saying Jason uses inkscape, I am referring to the posters that imply how simple it is to create designs, how its all done on the computer. I wasnt about to make anyone ask their parents for money to buy a graphics art program, so I suggest the free one so you can see how hard it is to do. Then wonder why some prints are done with pencils. When they get programmed on his professional graphic arts software, the coordinates of lines are on a file for the waterjet or nc. Its a job. Vinnie is programming the waterjet per job. You cant consider the dollars wasted where that machine should be making money, not sitting idle waiting to be programmed? They dont mind because they only work on one bike at a time. A half million dollar machine should be working all day long. Again, no respect for the real life business side of the custom bikes.

Learn a little of how drawings get transferred to NC files, and the time spent doing those things are time "wasted" in an office while the nc machines are making other parts because you actually work on more than one bike at a time. he is a tool, so what, big deal, yes, there are millions of jealous people attacking him thru the security blanket of their keyboards. Spend a day in his shoes.

jakemac · Senior Member

anotheridiot wrote:
Spend a day in his shoes.

Would those shoes happen to look like this ?

stinky_shoes[1].jpg

PAMD · Senior Member

Jason Pohl is despised by many because of his demeanor, behavior, and blatant immaturity. I believe that many would agree that he did his very best to "jump in Paulie's grave", and while it was still warm. His designs have not been met with wide acceptance, and the fact that Senior stated during one of the episodes (to the effect of) "I wish that I had a son like this", and essentially referred to him on one occasion as Pohl's being his son.

When you combine the above, with his fumbling with the Faro Arm (in his premiere appearance), you will realize that the powers that be created a character exuding incompetence, with little endearing charm. This is why he is viewed with such disgust....

ghostmonkey · Guru

anotheridiot wrote:
No, I am not saying Jason uses inkscape, I am referring to the posters that imply how simple it is to create designs, how its all done on the computer. I wasnt about to make anyone ask their parents for money to buy a graphics art program, so I suggest the free one so you can see how hard it is to do. Then wonder why some prints are done with pencils. When they get programmed on his professional graphic arts software, the coordinates of lines are on a file for the waterjet or nc. Its a job. Vinnie is programming the waterjet per job. You cant consider the dollars wasted where that machine should be making money, not sitting idle waiting to be programmed? They dont mind because they only work on one bike at a time. A half million dollar machine should be working all day long. Again, no respect for the real life business side of the custom bikes.

Learn a little of how drawings get transferred to NC files, and the time spent doing those things are time "wasted" in an office while the nc machines are making other parts because you actually work on more than one bike at a time. he is a tool, so what, big deal, yes, there are millions of jealous people attacking him thru the security blanket of their keyboards. Spend a day in his shoes.

Any fool can draw a bike but not every Phol can draw a good bike.

So just because PJD do 1 bike at a time that means they're being disrespectful? OK

Throwing a bike of the lift that others had put a lot of hard work into is disrespectful. Jealous of what?

ghostmonkey · Guru

PAMD wrote:
Jason Pohl is despised by many because of his demeanor, behavior, and blatant immaturity. I believe that many would agree that he did his very best to "jump in Paulie's grave", and while it was still warm. His designs have not been met with wide acceptance, and the fact that Senior stated during one of the episodes (to the effect of) "I wish that I had a son like this", and essentially referred to him on one occasion as Pohl's being his son.
When you combine the above, with his fumbling with the Faro Arm (in his premiere appearance), you will realize that the powers that be created a character exuding incompetence, with little endearing charm. This is why he is viewed with such disgust....

this place needs a like button lol. like x100

rumple · Senior Member

anotheridiot wrote:
No, I am not saying Jason uses inkscape, I am referring to the posters that imply how simple it is to create designs, how its all done on the computer. I wasnt about to make anyone ask their parents for money to buy a graphics art program, so I suggest the free one so you can see how hard it is to do. Then wonder why some prints are done with pencils. When they get programmed on his professional graphic arts software, the coordinates of lines are on a file for the waterjet or nc. Its a job. Vinnie is programming the waterjet per job. You cant consider the dollars wasted where that machine should be making money, not sitting idle waiting to be programmed? They dont mind because they only work on one bike at a time. A half million dollar machine should be working all day long. Again, no respect for the real life business side of the custom bikes.

Learn a little of how drawings get transferred to NC files, and the time spent doing those things are time "wasted" in an office while the nc machines are making other parts because you actually work on more than one bike at a time. he is a tool, so what, big deal, yes, there are millions of jealous people attacking him thru the security blanket of their keyboards. Spend a day in his shoes.

When your knee jerks like that anytime somebody mentions Jason and you somehow hear "Paulie," it can be a sign of low potassium levels, if not outright dementia. Since you've just been babbling and haven't answered a single question I asked anyway, here's a terrific recipe for peanut butter cookies (just so this thread isn't a total waste).

Peanut Butter Cookies

2 ½ c. flour
½ tsp. baking soda
½ tsp. baking powder
½ tsp. salt
½ lb. (2 sticks) SALTED butter, softened but still firm
1 c. packed brown sugar
1 c. granulated sugar
1 c. extra-crunchy peanut butter
2 large eggs
2 tsp. vanilla
1 c. roasted salted peanuts, ground in food processor to resemble bread crumbs, about 14 pulses

Adjust oven rack to low-center position. Heat oven to 350°. Line large cookie sheet with parchment paper.

Whisk flour, baking soda, baking powder and salt together in medium bowl, set aside.

Either by hand or with electric mixer, beat butter until creamy. Add sugars; beat until fluffy, about 3 minutes with electric mixer, stopping to scrape down bowl as necessary. Beat in peanut butter until fully incorporated, then eggs, one at a time, then vanilla. Gently stir dry ingredients into peanut butter mixture. Add ground peanuts, stir gently until just incorporated.

Working with generous 2 tablespoons each time, roll dough into 2 inch balls. Place balls on parchment-lined cookie sheet, leaving 2 ½ inches between each ball. Press each dough ball twice with dinner fork dipped in cold water to make crisscross design. Bake until cookies are puffed and slightly brown along the edges (but not on top--they will look slightly underbaked) about 10-12 minutes. (Makes about 3 dozen)

Serve with Prozac and Milk (of Magnesia).

dahammer_57 · Senior Member

anotheridiot wrote: Here is a free download link form the safe cnet for all you people saying how easy it is to draw on a computer.

My dislike of Jason Foole has nothing to do with a perception of digital design being "easy". It is about the lack of appeal what he creates with those tools display coupled with the behavior he has exhibited throughout his onscreen appearances. I'm sure it's great for tooling up a hundred greenies so Sr can by another Minitaure Mongolian Mountain Yak, but I could care less. OCC to me has become a huge shrine to Sr's ego and I understand it takes a ton of revenue to keep the Pharaoh's pyramid from collapsing as seen by the mortgage default, but I as a veiwer have no intrest in that or Goofy Goober Jason Foole and his antics. A 30 minute segment of "How do they make that" featuring the real Harley Davidson plant would fulfill my curiosity about"Real Life Industrial Design". My enjoyment of the show has always been how a client product or theme was integrated into the bike. Nobody in the course of the show has been able to do that better than Paul Jr. Period. smile

ghostmonkey · Guru

Jason's latest bike

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10152413475450144&set=o.127838953946009&type=1&theater

-- Edited by ghostmonkey on Sunday 20th of January 2013 07:24:48 PM

1Moparsick0 · Guru

I wish THAT was my big wheel.... It's chrysler hemi powered... biggrin biggrin biggrin biggrin biggrin biggrin biggrin biggrin biggrin biggrin biggrin biggrin biggrin biggrin biggrin biggrin biggrin

1Moparsick0 · Guru

anotheridiot wrote:
Dont you think the pictures you are digging up to complain about, like the one he is wearing the white sox cap in was from the white sox bike for the championship in 2005 are quite a few years old, you can tell he is 40 pounds lighter.

We dont know what bike Jason was talking about, jr stormed off pouting before they he said which project he was talking about.

Why do you take what ghostie sez as personal attacks... Wow It's like youur Pohl himself..

May you have in your life the ability for you to let it roll off you like water on Duck...

-- Edited by 1Moparsick0 on Monday 21st of January 2013 05:41:43 PM

anotheridiot · Guru

All the responses have nothing to do with his drawing skill, they are about how he acted on a show in front of a camera. Cameras are gone, but people still need to find something to hate about him. You haters dont hate him, you hate the fact he told everyone that jr took credit for something he designed.

.........and I'm supposed to find a life.

1Moparsick0 · Guru

I ws that was my big wheel.... It's chrysler hemi powered... biggrin biggrin biggrin biggrin biggrin biggrin biggrin biggrin biggrin biggrin biggrin biggrin biggrin biggrin biggrin biggrin biggrin

We don't hate him personally we just hate the road that by his actions has taken O.C.C.

ghostmonkey · Guru

anotheridiot wrote:
All the responses have nothing to do with his drawing skill, they are about how he acted on a show in front of a camera. Cameras are gone, but people still need to find something to hate about him. You haters dont hate him, you hate the fact he told everyone that jr took credit for something he designed.

.........and I'm supposed to find a life.

Cause his so called drawing skill is just not worth talking about. For examples look at the Horse bike, Antler bike and Italian sports bike or do you need more?

The TV cameras aree gone but as you see he is still acting that way. I didlike him cause he is a goofball who thinks he's more then he is. Remember even Rick said he was a crap designer and he didn't know how to design a real bike and all he does is cut and paste.

Name 1 bike Jr took credit for that Jason designed?

anotheridiot · Guru

Dont you think the pictures you are digging up to complain about, like the one he is wearing the white sox cap in was from the white sox bike for the championship in 2005 are quite a few years old, you can tell he is 40 pounds lighter.

We dont know what bike Jason was talking about, jr stormed off pouting before they he said which project he was talking about.

ghostmonkey · Guru

anotheridiot wrote:
Dont you think the pictures you are digging up to complain about, like the one he is wearing the white sox cap in was from the white sox bike for the championship in 2005 are quite a few years old, you can tell he is 40 pounds lighter.

We dont know what bike Jason was talking about, jr stormed off pouting before they he said which project he was talking about.

Um you do realize I didn't post the white sox pic. The pic I posted said Tommy's personal project bike with some wrench help from Jason. Bike looks good already, can't wait to see it finished. 17 January.

So just like I knew you cant. Just face it the guy is not a good 3d designer.

ghostmonkey · Guru

1Moparsick0 wrote:
anotheridiot wrote:
Dont you think the pictures you are digging up to complain about, like the one he is wearing the white sox cap in was from the white sox bike for the championship in 2005 are quite a few years old, you can tell he is 40 pounds lighter.

We dont know what bike Jason was talking about, jr stormed off pouting before they he said which project he was talking about.
Why do you take what ghostie sez as personal attacks... Wow It's like youur Pohl himself..

May you have in your life the ability for you to let it roll off you like water on Duck...

-- Edited by 1Moparsick0 on Monday 21st of January 2013 05:41:43 PM

lol hey mopar I've also been wondering if it was Jason?

1Moparsick0 · Guru

ghostmonkey wrote:
1Moparsick0 wrote:
anotheridiot wrote:
Dont you think the pictures you are digging up to complain about, like the one he is wearing the white sox cap in was from the white sox bike for the championship in 2005 are quite a few years old, you can tell he is 40 pounds lighter.

We dont know what bike Jason was talking about, jr stormed off pouting before they he said which project he was talking about.
Why do you take what ghostie sez as personal attacks... Wow It's like youur Pohl himself..

May you have in your life the ability for you to let it roll off you like water on Duck...

-- Edited by 1Moparsick0 on Monday 21st of January 2013 05:41:43 PM
lol hey mopar I've also been wondering if it was Jason?

Well... I don't think so much personally it's Jason himself, But, OMG it's like anytime you take a shot at the artistical designer at O.C.C. Wow.. It's like having a hair trigger on a old Winchester.. A good stiff wind could set it off..

admin · Member

I can verify with near 100% certainty that Jason Pohl is not among us.

ghostmonkey · Guru

lol I know it's not him. It's just so hard to find anyone even Sr and OCC fans that likes him. Relo? JK lol

anotheridiot · Guru

ghostmonkey wrote:
lol I know it's not him. It's just so hard to find anyone even Sr and OCC fans that likes him. Relo? JK lol

Who said anyone likes him? I dont have to be Jason to know how it feels to not be appreciated, to watch others take credit for ideas, to just come to work to do a job that the multi millionaire owner of the company wants me to do so his sheet metal guys are not wasting days on designing on the fly. The whole reason jason was hired was to take jr's ideas and put them on paper. Thats it, a business decision. Now Sr tells Jason how he wants things to look and he does it. They are working on a bike that will be on the lift after two or three that are in line now. I dont get the big deal is to not want guys you are paying good money to redoing the same parts over and over. Jr would have been able to put more and more ideas down on paper and turn more guys loose, instead of just concentrating on one bike at a time. Jr might build 6-8 bikes a year, turning loose a crew on his vision could be producing four times that amount. Thats what the father wanted for the son. It does not just apply to the Teutels, it applies to every father son business out there.

As far as why I take everything as a personal attack, do you really have to ask the question when regardless of what I post its jumping right down my throat? It takes a while to get thru my hard head. I notice others just ignoring the circle jerk, but why show up here if you dont want to participate?

ghostmonkey · Guru

anotheridiot wrote:
ghostmonkey wrote:
lol I know it's not him. It's just so hard to find anyone even Sr and OCC fans that likes him. Relo? JK lol
Who said anyone likes him? I dont have to be Jason to know how it feels to not be appreciated, to watch others take credit for ideas, to just come to work to do a job that the multi millionaire owner of the company wants me to do so his sheet metal guys are not wasting days on designing on the fly. The whole reason jason was hired was to take jr's ideas and put them on paper. Thats it, a business decision. Now Sr tells Jason how he wants things to look and he does it. They are working on a bike that will be on the lift after two or three that are in line now. I dont get the big deal is to not want guys you are paying good money to redoing the same parts over and over. Jr would have been able to put more and more ideas down on paper and turn more guys loose, instead of just concentrating on one bike at a time. Jr might build 6-8 bikes a year, turning loose a crew on his vision could be producing four times that amount. Thats what the father wanted for the son. It does not just apply to the Teutels, it applies to every father son business out there.
As far as why I take everything as a personal attack, do you really have to ask the question when regardless of what I post its jumping right down my throat? It takes a while to get thru my hard head. I notice others just ignoring the circle jerk, but why show up here if you dont want to participate?

Before Jason on what bike or bikes did the sheet metal guys waste days on designing or had to redo the same part over and over? And herein is my problem with you. You make up stuff and when questioned on it you can't or don't respond.

One minute you say Sr hired Jason so the sheet metal guys are not wasting days on designing on the fly and next it's so Jr can turn out 4x more bikes cause that's what dear old dad wanted for his son. bahahahahaha And since when have they only done 6-8 bikes a year?

As you said Jason was just hired to draw Jr's designs, he's not a designer. Sr gives him a few basic ideas and then he leaves it to someone who cant design. Geez I wonder why most of there bikes sucked, hmmm.

1Moparsick0 · Guru

admin wrote:
I can verify with near 100% certainty that Jason Pohl is not among us.

What wold you say to the real "Jason" if he was online??? ADMIN??? I'd love to give him some constructive suggestions...

jakemac · Senior Member

I'm not certain that any of my constructive suggestions for Jason would be printable.

AnitaLaLouise · Senior Member

Jason is a designer, because that is what people who use CAD and other computer-aided design programs are called. It is not the same as being a designer like Jr with bikes, but it is an accurate job description.

Personally I think Jason gets all of the blame for everything just because he's a big goofball and an easy target. It wasn't like he was secretly running OCC, and customers never signed off on even the most questionable "designs". He should have had a lot more input from the fabricators, but that is more a mark against Sr and those in charge at OCC for not providing the proper oversight.

anotheridiot · Guru

ghostmonkey wrote:
anotheridiot wrote:
ghostmonkey wrote:
lol I know it's not him. It's just so hard to find anyone even Sr and OCC fans that likes him. Relo? JK lol
Who said anyone likes him? I dont have to be Jason to know how it feels to not be appreciated, to watch others take credit for ideas, to just come to work to do a job that the multi millionaire owner of the company wants me to do so his sheet metal guys are not wasting days on designing on the fly. The whole reason jason was hired was to take jr's ideas and put them on paper. Thats it, a business decision. Now Sr tells Jason how he wants things to look and he does it. They are working on a bike that will be on the lift after two or three that are in line now. I dont get the big deal is to not want guys you are paying good money to redoing the same parts over and over. Jr would have been able to put more and more ideas down on paper and turn more guys loose, instead of just concentrating on one bike at a time. Jr might build 6-8 bikes a year, turning loose a crew on his vision could be producing four times that amount. Thats what the father wanted for the son. It does not just apply to the Teutels, it applies to every father son business out there.
As far as why I take everything as a personal attack, do you really have to ask the question when regardless of what I post its jumping right down my throat? It takes a while to get thru my hard head. I notice others just ignoring the circle jerk, but why show up here if you dont want to participate?
Before Jason on what bike or bikes did the sheet metal guys waste days on designing or had to redo the same part over and over? And herein is my problem with you. You make up stuff and when questioned on it you can't or don't respond.
One minute you say Sr hired Jason so the sheet metal guys are not wasting days on designing on the fly and next it's so Jr can turn out 4x more bikes cause that's what dear old dad wanted for his son. bahahahahaha And since when have they only done 6-8 bikes a year?
As you said Jason was just hired to draw Jr's designs, he's not a designer. Sr gives him a few basic ideas and then he leaves it to someone who cant design. Geez I wonder why most of there bikes sucked, hmmm.

Can we get one thing straight? All Jason was hired to do was be the computer guy putting jr's ideas down on paper. Basically a secretary. You say one minute I say Sr hired jason so the sheet metal guys are not designing on the fly and next its so jr can turn out four times more bikes. Dont you see its the same thing? When jr does not like a tank, they are wasting time changing it because they never had a clear picture. Do you remember Brendan finishing a gas tank, then jr taking one that got rejected from the last bike and using it instead? Brendan loved the tank, thought it was perfect, worked three days on it and jr grabs one from the shelf. If jr's vision was clearly on paper, that time could have been spent on a different bike. Its really not hard to understand.

How many bikes had jr done this year with his design on the fly approach, same question as how many theme bikes did jr work on at occ because he wants to do them one at a time? See, you think jr had a hand in building every single bike they did at OCC. Thats what sr was constantly trying to tell him. The rest of the business is building bikes every day and jr was just interested in the big dollar theme bikes. That was their biggest issue. They are still selling greenies, that was a bike jr helped design the first bike, they did four of them. They are still selling them. Each one could be a custom jr bike if he just did drawings with jason and let fab take over.

So instead of standing and watching what the sheet metal guys are doing, or not showing up for work because they wont have his idea done for a half day, jr could be sitting at a computer having a computer guy make the lines he was talking about and turn those plans over to the other fab guys. Thats production. All Jason was ever supposed to be was that computer guy. Thats why they built a 90,000 square foot mecca of bike building because they could have done alot more high dollar jr design bikes, not selling greenies.

Only when jr or the jr cult hear jason say he is an industrial designer do you believe he is calling himself the equal to jr, just the idea guy. Jr could not accept the fact that his lines were drawn by someone else and he felt he needed to share credit, even if that guy went to school for the experience with a degree in industrial design. Ever since jr was gone and jason has been there 9 years, he has the experience now in the field and should get some credit for lasting that long.

So please stop arguing points that are clearly the same result. If you dont get it the first time, I try a different example.

ghostmonkey · Guru

See here it is again I asked before Jason came to OCC and you talk about PJD??? One thing that we should get straight is that the best bikes that ever came out of OCC were the bikes done on the fly so to speak, bikes that when something didn't look right they made a better and more suitable part. When you have a drawing that a client signed off on and you run into the problem of parts not looking right you are stuck and cant make a change. As you said a tank that Brendan made was one that was rejected on a different bike, so there was no huge waste and that new tank he made can be used on a more suitable bike. This is where Sr and Jr differ in there approach, Sr has said many times that the client wants what ever we give them, Sr wants to do theme bikes as quick as possible and almost treat in like a production line, while Jr wants to give the clients the best bike possible and doesn't mine if he or others need to do a part 2 or 3 times as long as it suits the bike and considering the price the clients pay for a theme bike they deserve to be done right and not rushed. The proof of this is in the quality of bikes put out by OCC after Jr left and reaffirmed by Rick when he blew up and said what he did about Jason and his design ability's.

With the size OCC grew to do you really believe Jr should of been on the production line building greenies? You say this was the biggest issue, I might be wrong but I never don't remember Sr ever saying that but I could be wrong. You also talk that Sr only built the WHQ just so Jr could build more theme bikes. Just wondering where are all these clients that couldn't get the theme bikes they wanted because of Jr standing around or not showing up???? Why did we never see Sr mention all the clients wanting theme bikes and not be able to get them because of Jr? If that was the case we would of never heard the end of it from Sr. Sr built the WHQ for his own ego and the fool really thought that everyone around the world wanted an OCC bike, hence the name.

Jason lasting so long is because of Sr's ego. Jr is always giving credit to those around him. Just look at the first build off, Jr was there with his entire crew and after winning his entire crew was up on stage with him. How did Sr turn up? All by himself. Who after Jr left changed his bio on the OCC website from co-founder to founder? Jr and what he did for OCC is not even mentioned. And to top things on the OCC Cafe site if you read the about Sr talks about how the key to OCC's success was because of HIS creative and innovating designs and an unyielding stance on details and quality. WTF How can you say Jr steals credit when Sr says absolute BS like that?

dahammer_57 · Senior Member

Yada Yada Yada...a consensus of popular opinion has determined he still sucks.

anotheridiot · Guru

ghostmonkey wrote:
With the size OCC grew to do you really believe Jr should of been on the production line building greenies?

No, all I said was "like the greenies".

Jr designed 4 production bikes.

If he was willing to sit with Jason, he could have done more personal bikes for clients by releasing drawings to different fabricating crews. Not full themes, not standard production, but one off customer bikes.

Then he would be able to overlook multiple "signature" builds, not just one at a time theme builds. I would assume the price of a greenie could easily be doubled for a one off signature bike, but not 6 figures like a theme bike.

Thats the business that would have kept the 90,000 square feet overhead easily obtained.

That is all. To me it seems like the issue is if Jason puts it on paper, jr thinks he needs to share credit. Thats where people say that jr's ego got in the way.

The other positive would have been we would have never gotten to know the tool jason is because he would have just been the computer guy behind the scenes.

ghostmonkey · Guru

So now it's Jr's fault that Sr lost the WHQ back to the bank because he didn't do custom production bikes? Way too funny.

Who says there was a demand for custom production bikes? We don't even know how well the normal production bikes sell. Everyone has always complained about the cost of the standard production bikes so I highly doubt there were people out there who would want to pay that type of money.

If there production bikes sell why have we never seen anyone riding them? Why haven't we seen proud owners on FB showing there bikes off?

How can you talk about sharing credit and ego's when we have Sr rewriting OCC's history?

dahammer_57 · Senior Member

Doesn't matter who he was supposed to be or could've been the tool Foole we saw sucks.

-- Edited by dahammer_57 on Friday 25th of January 2013 01:47:57 PM

1Moparsick0 · Guru

anotheridiot wrote:
ghostmonkey wrote:
With the size OCC grew to do you really believe Jr should of been on the production line building greenies?

No, all I said was "like the greenies".
Jr designed 4 production bikes.
If he was willing to sit with Jason, he could have done more personal bikes for clients by releasing drawings to different fabricating crews. Not full themes, not standard production, but one off customer bikes.
Then he would be able to overlook multiple "signature" builds, not just one at a time theme builds. I would assume the price of a greenie could easily be doubled for a one off signature bike, but not 6 figures like a theme bike.
Thats the business that would have kept the 90,000 square feet overhead easily obtained.
That is all. To me it seems like the issue is if Jason puts it on paper, jr thinks he needs to share credit. Thats where people say that jr's ego got in the way.
The other positive would have been we would have never gotten to know the tool jason is because he would have just been the computer guy behind the scenes.

Look at what happened when Paulie did spend the time working with Jason on designs, Senior would get upset he was in jason's shop spending to much time designing. At this point of time when the money was flowing in like rain, honestly Paulie should've been able to devote his time to despign with Jason in designs for wheels an bikes... If truly like a automotive design studio the designer spend his time doing design not building the design.

All I can say to Senior is look at what he;s lost by not working with Paulie, an for Paulie to look at what he's lost or gained by not working with Senior they both need to get thier heads on straight an get it together.

SilentBob · Veteran Member

ghostmonkey wrote:
Who says there was a demand for custom production bikes? We don't even know how well the normal production bikes sell.
That is the first thing I thought. I don't see Custom Production Choppers as a viable business plan.
If the production bike is $40k (a guess on my part as I have no hard info concerning their cost) and you double it to $80k for the custom I sure don't want a cut and paste design assembled by no name has beens and wanna bes, I want it built by the name that made the business famous. If I want a Rick Fairless design I want him to do it and won’t expect an approval drawing since no real custom chopper builder does crap like that.

1Moparsick0 · Guru

anotheridiot wrote:
Give it some time, jr might be designing bikes from napa just emailing pictures to the shop some day.

I won't deny that Like father, like son that not much fabrication comes from his own hands pretty much anymore, but as far as who has a eye for design, it's like comparing night an day..

If I wanted a bike that I felt was going to be built for me by the fabricator. I'd have Vinnie's company build it, or if I wanted more of ol'school I'd want RPD to build it. But if you are talking a bike that going to have the quality of design equal the fabrication. It would be PjD... I'd wouldn't want my bike built or designed by a half-witted industrial designer.

-- Edited by 1Moparsick0 on Friday 25th of January 2013 02:17:07 PM

1Moparsick0 · Guru

SilentBob wrote:
ghostmonkey wrote:
Who says there was a demand for custom production bikes? We don't even know how well the normal production bikes sell.
That is the first thing I thought. I don't see Custom Production Choppers as a viable business plan.
If the production bike is $40k (a guess on my part as I have no hard info concerning their cost) and you double it to $80k for the custom I sure don't want a cut and paste design assembled by no name has beens and wanna bes, I want it built by the name that made the business famous. If I want a Rick Fairless design I want him to do it and won’t expect an approval drawing since no real custom chopper builder does crap like that.

Wow.... Now there is a thought train that I can jump onto.. Would you want a bike designed by Jason Pohl or Paul Jr, or even if you had Rick Petko do it through O.C.C. Same thing go for Quinn, who designs the custom parts. Honestly getting a O.C.C. bike for the O.C.C. logo.... Shame that Paulie never took Senior up an gave his 20% up for all right an royalities for the O.C.C. logo... That's where the money truly was.... Because people wanted that logo on there bike because it ment a custom part that gave the customer a feeling that there bike was customized by paulie and O.C.C. Not Senior..... Senior owned the company but really who designed the bikes..... PAULIE...

Senior needs to take himself out of the equation to save O.C.C. I can't think of a person that would want their CUSTOM bike built by a idustrial designer, nah.... I'd want it built by a motorcycle fabricator.... Least IMHO.

anotheridiot · Guru

1Moparsick0 wrote:
SilentBob wrote:
ghostmonkey wrote:
Who says there was a demand for custom production bikes? We don't even know how well the normal production bikes sell.
That is the first thing I thought. I don't see Custom Production Choppers as a viable business plan.
If the production bike is $40k (a guess on my part as I have no hard info concerning their cost) and you double it to $80k for the custom I sure don't want a cut and paste design assembled by no name has beens and wanna bes, I want it built by the name that made the business famous. If I want a Rick Fairless design I want him to do it and won’t expect an approval drawing since no real custom chopper builder does crap like that.
Wow.... Now there is a thought train that I can jump onto.. Would you want a bike designed by Jason Pohl or Paul Jr, or even if you had Rick Petko do it through O.C.C. Same thing go for Quinn, who designs the custom parts. Honestly getting a O.C.C. bike for the O.C.C. logo.... Shame that Paulie never took Senior up an gave his 20% up for all right an royalities for the O.C.C. logo... That's where the money truly was.... Because people wanted that logo on there bike because it ment a custom part that gave the customer a feeling that there bike was customized by paulie and O.C.C. Not Senior..... Senior owned the company but really who designed the bikes..... PAULIE...
Senior needs to take himself out of the equation to save O.C.C. I can't think of a person that would want their CUSTOM bike built by a idustrial designer, nah.... I'd want it built by a motorcycle fabricator.... Least IMHO.

The point I was trying to make was jr designing with jason drawing. Its still a paul jr designed custom occ bike.

I never said nor should it have been implied that I said Jason can customize production bikes for twice the price.

I did not say or imply that jr would customize a production bike.

I said jr could have designed a customer custom bike they could sell for twice the price of a production bike.

I said Paulie can direct, jason draw, as the computer guy nobody knew or needed to know.

I say that was the plan to keep the 90k mecca as a bike shop only.

Even when I say something positive about jr's talents you tools turn it into a negative.

Give it some time, jr might be designing bikes from napa just emailing pictures to the shop some day.

dahammer_57 · Senior Member

Some have suggested Jason is the result of an alien abduction impregnation or perhaps a Wolf Boy adoption from a Romanian orphanage. New evidence has come to light which points to an even stranger point of origin. biggrin

Oh and answer to Mopes question. Over the top high dollar theme bike - Design =Jr, Tank & Tins = Brendan, Paint = Nub, Build = PJD crew. Bike that would actually be a driver - RPD for old school, PJD for modern like his off air build bikes.

-- Edited by dahammer_57 on Saturday 26th of January 2013 12:21:08 AM

ghostmonkey · Guru

anotheridiot wrote:
The point I was trying to make was jr designing with jason drawing. Its still a paul jr designed custom occ bike.
I never said nor should it have been implied that I said Jason can customize production bikes for twice the price.
I did not say or imply that jr would customize a production bike.
I said jr could have designed a customer custom bike they could sell for twice the price of a production bike.
I said Paulie can direct, jason draw, as the computer guy nobody knew or needed to know.
I say that was the plan to keep the 90k mecca as a bike shop only.

Even when I say something positive about jr's talents you tools turn it into a negative.
Give it some time, jr might be designing bikes from napa just emailing pictures to the shop some day.

OMG No the point you were trying to make was that because of the way Jr designs employees either stand around and or waste time building the same part over and over again and if that wasn't the case they could of done 4 tmes the amount of bikes and that's what Sr wanted for Jr.

And who says there was any demand for a Jr designed customer custom bike they could sell for twice the price of a production bike??

Positive about Jr? Come on now be real.

You went on how he doesn't give credit and his ego. And how if only he supplied this demand for one of customer bikes then they wouldn't have lost the WHQ.

If that's positive then I'd hate to see negative. lol

The rest of the business is building bikes every day and jr was just interested in the big dollar theme bikes. That was their biggest issue. They are still selling greenies, that was a bike jr helped design the first bike, they did four of them. They are still selling them. Each one could be a custom jr bike if he just did drawings with jason and let fab take over.

1Moparsick0 · Guru

Let's come to a poit of a sort of concenus.. Which designer would you want your bike built by:

1. Jason Pohl.

2. Paul jr.

3. Brendan

4. Rick Petko

5. Paul Sr.

ghostmonkey · Guru

Jr

1Moparsick0 · Guru

SilentBob wrote:
Man, that's a tough question. It's like asking who I would rater be beat up by; none of them :) My taste runs more along the lines of Geeser Glide. But of those listed;

Paul jr. / His designs are too busy for me to want to own, though I do like looking at them when someone else has to do the upkeep.

Brendan / He seems to do good metal work, but I'd have to see his design ideas.

Rick Petko / His designs seem to be more old school. If I wanted a skinny old school design I could see myself owning one of his.

Bob this a link to Elite Metal designs. The company that Bredan works for when not rolling with PJD, and some of the customer bikes that has featured his handywork... His designs are one reason it would be sooooo damn hard to choose between Ricker or even Jessie (don't think he could even make a tank better than O.C.C.... Not in a million years...

http://elitemetaldesigns.com/custbikes.html

-- Edited by 1Moparsick0 on Sunday 27th of January 2013 12:05:04 PM

SilentBob · Veteran Member

Man, that's a tough question. It's like asking who I would rater be beat up by; none of them :) My taste runs more along the lines of Geeser Glide. But of those listed;

Paul jr. / His designs are too busy for me to want to own, though I do like looking at them when someone else has to do the upkeep.

Brendan / He seems to do good metal work, but I'd have to see his design ideas.

Rick Petko / His designs seem to be more old school. If I wanted a skinny old school design I could see myself owning one of his.

ghostmonkey · Guru

The face that helped destroy OCC, he just cant help himself.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=4568932216025&set=o.163740851652&type=1&theater