The Original American Chopper Fan Forum, and the new, and Original Orange County Choppers on CMT Fan Forum

jakemac · Senior Member

RE: JJ might be a no-show at the build off.

RoTTonSKiPPy · Veteran Member

http://designbyjoyce.com/pauljr/buildoff2.html

AnitaLaLouise · Senior Member

Aw, I don't much care for him as a person but was interested to see his bike. I really wish he would have finished.

rumple · Veteran Member

A specially-trained bicycle messenger has been dispatched to a small Amish sect in the Nevada desert, who have a few deaf and blind members who may be the only people left on the planet who don't know what a douchebag Jesse James is. Meanwhile, Jesse is practicing the whining and pouting he perfected on "Monster Garage..." when he showed up, that is.

Maribegood · Senior Member

jakemac wrote:
<snip>

I call --- TOOL !!!!!!!!!!

Seconded.

anotheridiot · Guru

AnitaLaLouise wrote:
Aw, I don't much care for him as a person but was interested to see his bike. I really wish he would have finished.

I dont know if he is just dicking with people, got bad news about his show on discovery and pouting, or really had some innovative parts on his design that would have blown people away.

I guess we see monday.

1Moparsick0 · Senior Member

I hate to say it, but Senior himself and maybe Rick togther could build a better bike than Gas(bag) Mookies. Nice look, not bad. Counts Customs on Hist channel built a bike for Chumlee that was five times slicker, an could build a better bike than that Bearded Duche Bag. Now What'as this about Jesse??? Isn't going to make it??? I definately don't see Gas monkee winning it, so if Jesse is out, Maybee this time Senior is on his A game..... Hopefully he leaves Jason out of the equasion. Senior I hope you let rick do the design.. Maybe not if you used that big S&S the Mike A thought was the ticket for a prooduction bike.... So who the heck is going to win.... Jeezzz It could be a toss up between all four flusterclucks.....

Izzy Ryder · Senior Member

He's fighting to the end.....

Looks like the bike was finished but blew the transmission on the test ride.

Two of his latest tweets. The first one, Rick Petko replied to JJ. (He offered to send a new mainshaft)

This is the newest tweet....

-- Edited by Izzy Ryder on Saturday 8th of December 2012 10:43:01 AM

rumple · Veteran Member

I call BS. The build off isn't about engines or transmissions.

You can't convince me that JJ couldn't have A: grabbed another engine, drive-shaft or tranny (most "speed shops" have them laying around), B: found a machinist who could turn out a new part in nothing flat, or C: have a new engine delivered overnight from any of approximately umpteen suppliers. ("Hey, Mr. Ness? Sorry about all the crap I've said about you over the years. Can you do me a favor?")

-- Edited by rumple on Saturday 8th of December 2012 11:10:53 AM

SilentBob · Veteran Member

After looking at the link, I see this as a 2 builder contest. JJ is spitting sour grapes because he can't stand the thought of losing twice after running his mouth so much.

The "Fred" looks like a nice clean bike, but not "Build Off" material.

So that leaves Sr. & Jr. I agree Sr. will likely make a much better showing then last year. That is the difference between Sr. & JJ, when the going gets tough JJ goes home, Sr. gets tough.

Izzy Ryder · Senior Member

rumple wrote:
I call BS. The build off isn't about engines or transmissions.

You can't convince me that JJ couldn't have A: grabbed another engine, drive-shaft or tranny (most "speed shops" have them laying around), B: found a machinist who could turn out a new part in nothing flat, or C: have a new engine delivered overnight from any of approximately umpteen suppliers. ("Hey, Mr. Ness? Sorry about all the crap I've said about you over the years. Can you do me a favor?")

-- Edited by rumple on Saturday 8th of December 2012 11:10:53 AM

You just don't find Baker transmissions at the local corner shop. They're custom built to order. That's why Bert Baker (the man who builds them) flew in to help out.

-- Edited by Izzy Ryder on Saturday 8th of December 2012 11:46:30 AM

dahammer_57 · Senior Member

I think they got the name wrong. - T.U.R.D. - Definitley not build off quality. More Ass Monkey sub standard crap.

ghostmonkey · Guru

Izzy Ryder wrote:
In the back of my mind I'm thinking this all might be another Pilligian ploy to boost ratings for this year's show. Maybe DC is afraid that not as many viewers will tune in as last year. All the participants have been openly tweeting about JJ's problems for the past few days. You would think none of the contestants would be allowed to reveal anything about what's going on until the day of the show.

It could be Pilgrim knowing what they'e like.

-- Edited by ghostmonkey on Saturday 8th of December 2012 05:16:36 PM

PAMD · Senior Member

Kat Von D is in the process of having the tattoo of JJ's face removed from her bod: http://www.latimes.com-kat-von-d-removes-tattoo-jesse-james.story

1Moparsick0 · Senior Member

Must be sulking.... You know the guys got issues if he can't keep a relatioship without Screwing it Up... I guess finally his ego has got the best of him... All that chucklinggibber-jabber, an lame-o pranks, should've been spending that time working on your bike...

anotheridiot · Guru

PAMD wrote:
Kat Von D is in the process of having the tattoo of JJ's face removed from her bod: http://www.latimes.com-kat-von-d-removes-tattoo-jesse-james.story

It was creepy to begin with, it was jesse as a little kid. That was wrong from the beginning.

Izzy Ryder · Senior Member

anotheridiot wrote:
PAMD wrote:
Kat Von D is in the process of having the tattoo of JJ's face removed from her bod: http://www.latimes.com-kat-von-d-removes-tattoo-jesse-james.story
It was creepy to begin with, it was jesse as a little kid. That was wrong from the beginning.

She'll just replace it with another tatto of the next loser she falls in love with. She's predictable that way. Falls for a lot of losers.

jakemac · Senior Member

I still think that JJ's a tool. I get that a blown transmission at the last minute might cause someone to get a little pi$$y (understatement), but to call the build-off BS after agreeing to participate is just sour-grapes. Not to mention that he missed his first deadline, and had to ask for an extension.

The Biker BuildOff crews only had 7 days to build a bike (ok, a lot of those bikes fell apart, or burned after the show), but Jesse had 6 weeks. He may be good at swinging a hammer, but he can't manage his time even though he has no problem yelling at others to make a deadline. He and Sr share the same quality. When they can't do it themselves, they'll scream at others to get it done.

Izzy Ryder · Senior Member

In the back of my mind I'm thinking this all might be another Pilligian ploy to boost ratings for this year's show. Maybe DC is afraid that not as many viewers will tune in as last year. All the participants have been openly tweeting about JJ's problems for the past few days. You would think none of the contestants would be allowed to reveal anything about what's going on until the day of the show.

Izzy Ryder · Senior Member

ghostmonkey wrote:
Izzy Ryder wrote:
In the back of my mind I'm thinking this all might be another Pilligian ploy to boost ratings for this year's show. Maybe DC is afraid that not as many viewers will tune in as last year. All the participants have been openly tweeting about JJ's problems for the past few days. You would think none of the contestants would be allowed to reveal anything about what's going on until the day of the show.
It could be knowing what they are like.

I would think the contracts they signed have considerably more restrictions than just that.

jakemac · Senior Member

According to the Road to Revenge Blog, as of 10:30am on Saturday, the production crew still wasn't sure whether JJ has his bike done, or not. The other Builders are in Vegas, and filming promo's, and 'in the can' shots for the show. JJ is still MIA. The question is still whether JJ will show up at all.

The Blog can't show pics of the bikes, but has video that let's you hear what the bikes sound like.

-- Edited by jakemac on Sunday 9th of December 2012 03:05:17 PM

anotheridiot · Guru

Why are they worried about a transmission, the winner last year barely had enough fuel capacity to drive out on the stage.

jakemac · Senior Member

The bikes are supposed to drive up a ramp onto the stage. No transmission, no drive.

jakemac · Senior Member

Just checked the Blog. JJ and his bike have left Austin, and are headed for Vegas. Tick ... Tick ... Tick ............

Izzy Ryder · Senior Member

It's gonna be a long sleepless drive straight thru to Vegas.

1Moparsick0 · Senior Member

rumple wrote:
I call BS. The build off isn't about engines or transmissions.

You can't convince me that JJ couldn't have A: grabbed another engine, drive-shaft or tranny (most "speed shops" have them laying around), B: found a machinist who could turn out a new part in nothing flat, or C: have a new engine delivered overnight from any of approximately umpteen suppliers. ("Hey, Mr. Ness? Sorry about all the crap I've said about you over the years. Can you do me a favor?")

-- Edited by rumple on Saturday 8th of December 2012 11:10:53 AM

I thought nowadays that the engines or tranny packages are fairly reliable. How can a part like that fail in the leading Transmisson maker for the custom bike industry..

Izzy Ryder · Senior Member

1Moparsick0 wrote:
rumple wrote:
I call BS. The build off isn't about engines or transmissions.

You can't convince me that JJ couldn't have A: grabbed another engine, drive-shaft or tranny (most "speed shops" have them laying around), B: found a machinist who could turn out a new part in nothing flat, or C: have a new engine delivered overnight from any of approximately umpteen suppliers. ("Hey, Mr. Ness? Sorry about all the crap I've said about you over the years. Can you do me a favor?")

I thought nowadays that the engines or tranny packages are fairly reliable. How can a part like that fail in the leading Transmisson maker for the custom bike industry..

Some builders do extremely rigorous test rides. ;)

jakemac · Senior Member

1Moparsick0 wrote:
I thought nowadays that the engines or tranny packages are fairly reliable. How can a part like that fail in the leading Transmisson maker for the custom bike industry..

Who knows, parts fail all the time. Sometimes it's bad materials, a mistake in manufacturing, damage in shipping, or it could have been that JJ's engine was over powered and the trans wasn't built to take it. Baker's transmissions have been known to fail before. I think I remember it happening on BBO or AC. It happens. If it was built in a rush, they may not have been able to test it fully.

dahammer_57 · Senior Member

From Christo Doyle, EP of Chopper Live: The Revenge

Quote:There has been a spirited back and forth about his last minute scramble to get here. For a while it looked like he may not show. Jesse would never come without the bike he envisioned. Luckily, his bike is on the way.

1Moparsick0 · Senior Member

dahammer_57 wrote:
From Christo Doyle, EP of Chopper Live: The Revenge

Quote:There has been a spirited back and forth about his last minute scramble to get here. For a while it looked like he may not show. Jesse would never come without the bike he envisioned. Luckily, his bike is on the way.

Mr Doyle has alot to do about the new big, bad rough an rugged formating of the New DSC sci... So as you can see his slant is baised to get the "Dramatic" bike builders off the air, since JJ an Gas Bags have filled his head that the Teutuls don't build "Real" bikes.

Izzy Ryder · Senior Member

I came across this post on the DC boards today. I thought it was pretty humorous.

"......Chopper Live the American Idol of the Discovery Channel! Motorcycle Mania was the best & Jesse is by far the best but his reputation took a hit with the Sandy situation. The build is a joke and i hope Gas Junky wins! Winning recipe:Preheat oven to 425, find a frame in a storage unit auction, have it gold plated with gold found in a jungle or the bottom of the sea in Alaska, bike will only run on moonshine, build it fast enough to outrun the impending doom of the apocolypse, once completed bring to the pawn shop for an appraisel. i dont spell so well!! Go Jesse!!!!! ....."

-- Edited by Izzy Ryder on Monday 10th of December 2012 03:49:39 PM

jakemac · Senior Member

1Moparsick0 wrote:
Mr Doyle has alot to do about the new big, bad rough an rugged formating of the New DSC sci... So as you can see his slant is baised to get the "Dramatic" bike builders off the air, since JJ an Gas Bags have filled his head that the Teutuls don't build "Real" bikes.

It's not just JJ and GMG that have that attitude. The Biker community has been saying that for years. Christo may be trying to tap into that market for veiwership, now that he's done playing with the Teutuls.

anotheridiot · Guru

1Moparsick0 wrote:
rumple wrote:
I call BS. The build off isn't about engines or transmissions.

You can't convince me that JJ couldn't have A: grabbed another engine, drive-shaft or tranny (most "speed shops" have them laying around), B: found a machinist who could turn out a new part in nothing flat, or C: have a new engine delivered overnight from any of approximately umpteen suppliers. ("Hey, Mr. Ness? Sorry about all the crap I've said about you over the years. Can you do me a favor?")

-- Edited by rumple on Saturday 8th of December 2012 11:10:53 AM
I thought nowadays that the engines or tranny packages are fairly reliable. How can a part like that fail in the leading Transmisson maker for the custom bike industry..

maybe it got rushed thru and they skipped the heat treat step. Maybe it was misaligned in the bearing and it got wrecked. There is gonna be so much going on with jesse's bike its probably gonna take a real expert to take it all in.

ghostmonkey · Guru

anotheridiot wrote:
There is gonna be so much going on with jesse's bike its probably gonna take a real expert to take it all in.

Is that why he missed the deadlines? How is this fair?

Izzy Ryder · Senior Member

ghostmonkey wrote:
anotheridiot wrote:
There is gonna be so much going on with jesse's bike its probably gonna take a real expert to take it all in.
Is that why he missed the deadlines? How is this fair?

Didn't we already ascertain that he missed the deadline because he stubbornly refuses to use a crew of fabricators and cnc machines for support?

1Moparsick0 · Senior Member

anotheridiot wrote:
1Moparsick0 wrote:
rumple wrote:
I call BS. The build off isn't about engines or transmissions.

You can't convince me that JJ couldn't have A: grabbed another engine, drive-shaft or tranny (most "speed shops" have them laying around), B: found a machinist who could turn out a new part in nothing flat, or C: have a new engine delivered overnight from any of approximately umpteen suppliers. ("Hey, Mr. Ness? Sorry about all the crap I've said about you over the years. Can you do me a favor?")

-- Edited by rumple on Saturday 8th of December 2012 11:10:53 AM
I thought nowadays that the engines or tranny packages are fairly reliable. How can a part like that fail in the leading Transmisson maker for the custom bike industry..
maybe it got rushed thru and they skipped the heat treat step. Maybe it was misaligned in the bearing and it got wrecked. There is gonna be so much going on with jesse's bike its probably gonna take a real expert to take it all in.

So you basically imply that only true "purist" bikers will get what JJ or Garbage Mookies built an that the show watchers or "The Voting Public" will vote for the shiniest babble no matter how well it's built...

ghostmonkey · Guru

Izzy Ryder wrote:
Didn't we already ascertain that he missed the deadline because he stubbornly refuses to use a crew of fabricators and cnc machines for support?

And that makes it OK to break the rules? How is it fair to everyone else? He used a crew last time.

Izzy Ryder · Senior Member

ghostmonkey wrote:
Izzy Ryder wrote:
Didn't we already ascertain that he missed the deadline because he stubbornly refuses to use a crew of fabricators and cnc machines for support?
And that makes it OK to break the rules? How is it fair to everyone else? He used a crew last time.

He used a crew last time for the same reason I just posted. Only that time he was smart enough to call in the troops earlier to help him make deadline.

Besides, I'm sure none of the other contestants would approve of a JJ disqualification. It would be a hollow victory if it came down to that.

It all doesn't matter anyway. Everyone knows who is winning this contest.

anotheridiot · Guru

The 6 weeks to build a bike was a deadline. Fabrication being done and assembly being done are two different things.

I am sure jr will cry foul if somehow he loses, but remember last year jr was the last to agree to do this buildoff because most of his outsourced parts take 6 weeks for the companies to design and fabricate for him. Jr pissed off Pilgrim, I am sure he is gonna do whatever he can for the two shows that are still on the air.

ghostmonkey · Guru

Izzy Ryder wrote:
ghostmonkey wrote:
And that makes it OK to break the rules? How is it fair to everyone else? He used a crew last time.
He used a crew last time for the same reason I just posted. Only that time he was smart enough to call in the troops earlier to help him make deadline.
Besides, I'm sure none of the other contestants would approve of a JJ disqualification. It would be a hollow victory if it came down to that.
It all doesn't matter anyway. Everyone knows who is winning this contest.

So just because he is stubborn and thinks he can do everything by himself the other teams gets disadvantaged? I'm sure the other contestants would of loved more time as well but they were silly and stuck by the rules. I'm sure JJ wouldn't want to win when he has had an advantage over his competition? It would be a hollow victory if it came down to that.

1Moparsick0 · Senior Member

anotheridiot wrote:
The 6 weeks to build a bike was a deadline. Fabrication being done and assembly being done are two different things.

I am sure jr will cry foul if somehow he loses, but remember last year jr was the last to agree to do this buildoff because most of his outsourced parts take 6 weeks for the companies to design and fabricate for him. Jr pissed off Pilgrim, I am sure he is gonna do whatever he can for the two shows that are still on the air.

Wait a min..... Only one heard crying was JJ that he brokeed a part, an took till nearly two days ago to get his bike going. But I wouldn't say Jr will be ashamed if he did lose... Because from what I have seen in pics, he did a impressive job to take ratrod an art Deco, an the Style them together into his style of bikes... Much better than gas Mookie's FRED... Fred looks like a Mildly customized Harley without HD logo on the tanks.

anotheridiot · Guru

1Moparsick0 wrote:
anotheridiot wrote:
The 6 weeks to build a bike was a deadline. Fabrication being done and assembly being done are two different things.

I am sure jr will cry foul if somehow he loses, but remember last year jr was the last to agree to do this buildoff because most of his outsourced parts take 6 weeks for the companies to design and fabricate for him. Jr pissed off Pilgrim, I am sure he is gonna do whatever he can for the two shows that are still on the air.
Wait a min..... Only one heard crying was JJ that he brokeed a part, an took till nearly two days ago to get his bike going. But I wouldn't say Jr will be ashamed if he did lose... Because from what I have seen in pics, he did a impressive job to take ratrod an art Deco, an the Style them together into his style of bikes... Much better than gas Mookie's FRED... Fred looks like a Mildly customized Harley without HD logo on the tanks.

fred might be a decoy. rat rods are black primer, not pink. all I am saying is jr will cry about jesse getting extra time, not that he built the bike from scratch. jr will get the best parts money can order. there is only one fabricator in this competition.

ghostmonkey · Guru

anotheridiot wrote:
The 6 weeks to build a bike was a deadline. Fabrication being done and assembly being done are two different things.

I am sure jr will cry foul if somehow he loses, but remember last year jr was the last to agree to do this buildoff because most of his outsourced parts take 6 weeks for the companies to design and fabricate for him. Jr pissed off Pilgrim, I am sure he is gonna do whatever he can for the two shows that are still on the air.

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=110531609115186&set=o.343470002343007&type=1&theater

jakemac · Senior Member

Here's a photo of Jr's bike from the same facebook page.

Jr's bike

jakemac · Senior Member

After watching the first part of the build-off, I think Jesse should be disqualified.

He signed a contract to finish by a certain date. GMG finished early, PJD and OCC came close enough IMO to earn some leeway. But Jesse had to ask for another 2 weeks, and still couldn't make it. The whole time, he kept saying that the deadline was BS and that he didn't care.

Fine, boot his a$$ and don't pay him. He says that he doesn't care about the money, but the first thing he asked about was "am I getting paid". Take the paycheck away for breach of contract, and lets see how fast he can dial his lawyer. I bet he'll start to care then.

-- Edited by jakemac on Tuesday 11th of December 2012 01:43:04 AM

PAMD · Senior Member

The competition in my mind is between Gas Monkey and PJD; as they both fulfilled the spirit of the contract, and came closest to building what could best be considered motorcycles within the (now broad) definition of the term "chopper".

OCC's offering was at best - a demonstration of their ability to design and carry out work done on a CNC machine. The only piece on the bike which showed any amount of human talent was the gas tank. The balance of the bike is composed of 1's and 0's, mostly zero's....

Jesse James and his Austin Speed Shop crew created something which demonstrated their ability to do heavy fabrication, and utilize the drive train in a structural manner. Had he met the six-week criterion set forth in the show's contract, there is a good possibility that the bike would have been first or second. The extra time required to complete the task voided the spirit of the build, and he is disqualified (in my thinking) on that aspect, alone. His "bad boy - bitchy" attitude served well in siphoning even more votes from his ultimate goal. He is a jackass, and a scumbag in my book.

Gas Monkey Garage did a nice job, and will give Junior a run for the money. Their offering best meets the spirit of the term "chopper".

PJD, eh - hmmm, I liked everything on the bike except for the paint; which detracted from an otherwise stellar job. The bike would have looked best with a maroon color scheme similar to that of the Classic Lincoln Chopper done during the 2005/2006 season. If Junior loses, it will be because of the choice of color scheme. You can't tell me that Nub's stomach didn't turn while painting this one. What in the hell is it with these flattened colors??

Jimmy the Greek says:

1st Place: Paul Junior Designs 2nd Place: Gas Monkey Garage 3rd Place: Orange County Choppers

TECHNICALLY DISQUALIFIED=================>>4th Place: Jesse James/Austin Speed Shop

Renegade · Senior Member

RoTTonSKiPPy wrote:
http://designbyjoyce.com/pauljr/buildoff2.html

Jesse built a better bike this time. Better then Occ and Gas monkey. Could it be better then Juniors? I know it's definately faster. yawn

SilentBob · Veteran Member

PAMD wrote:
The competition in my mind is between Gas Monkey and PJD; as they both fulfilled the spirit of the contract, and came closest to building what could best be considered motorcycles within the (now broad) definition of the term "chopper".
This would be good if "Chopper" were initially a requirement, but the challange is "Biker Build Off".

What in the hell is it with these flattened colors??
I'm with you, but that seems to be the new fad

TECHNICALLY DISQUALIFIED=================>>4th Place: Jesse James/Austin Speed Shop
Again, I'm with you. After the way JJ said there is no advantage to him for winning because he beat the bottom of the barrel and if he loses it's because it's just a popularity contest or the viewers are to stupid to know what they are looking at. They should replay his BS on the big screen and then send him packing.

anotheridiot · Guru

jakemac wrote:
After watching the first part of the build-off, I think Jesse should be disqualified.

He signed a contract to finish by a certain date. GMG finished early, PJD and OCC came close enough IMO to earn some leeway. But Jesse had to ask for another 2 weeks, and still couldn't make it. The whole time, he kept saying that the deadline was BS and that he didn't care.
Fine, boot his a$$ and don't pay him. He says that he doesn't care about the money, but the first thing he asked about was "am I getting paid". Take the paycheck away for breach of contract, and lets see how fast he can dial his lawyer. I bet he'll start to care then.

-- Edited by jakemac on Tuesday 11th of December 2012 01:43:04 AM

what paycheck? he didnt ask if he was getting paid, he asked if there was money involved this time. they get to keep the bikes. he took his time building what he wanted to build for a decade, are they supposed to take that away from him?

anotheridiot · Guru

PAMD wrote:
The competition in my mind is between Gas Monkey and PJD; as they both fulfilled the spirit of the contract, and came closest to building what could best be considered motorcycles within the (now broad) definition of the term "chopper".
OCC's offering was at best - a demonstration of their ability to design and carry out work done on a CNC machine. The only piece on the bike which showed any amount of human talent was the gas tank. The balance of the bike is composed of 1's and 0's, mostly zero's....
Jesse James and his Austin Speed Shop crew created something which demonstrated their ability to do heavy fabrication, and utilize the drive train in a structural manner. Had he met the six-week criterion set forth in the show's contract, there is a good possibility that the bike would have been first or second. The extra time required to complete the task voided the spirit of the build, and he is disqualified (in my thinking) on that aspect, alone. His "bad boy - bitchy" attitude served well in siphoning even more votes from his ultimate goal. He is a jackass, and a scumbag in my book.
Gas Monkey Garage did a nice job, and will give Junior a run for the money. Their offering best meets the spirit of the term "chopper".
PJD, eh - hmmm, I liked everything on the bike except for the paint; which detracted from an otherwise stellar job. The bike would have looked best with a maroon color scheme similar to that of the Classic Lincoln Chopper done during the 2005/2006 season. If Junior loses, it will be because of the choice of color scheme. You can't tell me that Nub's stomach didn't turn while painting this one. What in the hell is it with these flattened colors??

Jimmy the Greek says:

1st Place: Paul Junior Designs 2nd Place: Gas Monkey Garage 3rd Place: Orange County Choppers
TECHNICALLY DISQUALIFIED=================>>4th Place: Jesse James/Austin Speed Shop

But just like last year, a chopper did not win. Its a bike build, anything goes. I think thats what disappointed me more last year was seeing one chopper out of three bikes (or things).

PJD, too much sheet metal, that huge front tire, and buying a laser cut reproduction grille instead of even trying to make one because they knew they couldnt.

I also predict vinnie gets bitch slapped by someone affiliated with jesse or jesse himself. man doesnt realize he wont have the camera in his face anymore?

I dont know why you think the OCC cnc gas tank had any human talent, unless it was just the polishing.

This years disappointments. No choppers, jr can still only build theme bikes, second year in a row Rick Petco unable to show any of his fabricating talent, vinnie wont show any respect for anybody, and probably the biggest disappointments, the two chopper kings are building copies of japanese crotch rockets.