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PAMD · Senior Member

'AMISH MAFIA' BUSTED - Lancaster Intelligencer Journal, 12 January 2013

anotheridiot · Guru

Its still pretty funny so many people are trying to get to the bottom of this. It was pretty clear that hiding the trailer in a place with nothing but barren land around it was not a good job of hiding, and reduced any damage that might have been done if it was rolled back in a forest somewhere where it could have been hidden.

In all reality, how tough and badass does someone need to be to be powerful to the docile Amish people anyway? The biggest hypocrite is Esther, since she dresses Amish, gets in cars with men and bangs most of them. the other three dont even try to portray being amish, mainly they dont even wear the hat. They are not pretending to be Amish, they are just civilians in an Amish community.

How different is it than america really. The majority of the people follow a politician that was schooled in chicago politics under Tony Rezco, who is serving time, gets elected to the house, promises not to run for president while serving his first term as a representative, throws that out the window and starts campaigning for the presidency 16 months into his first term, never showed up to vote in congress while he was running the longest campaign in american politic history, gets elected with those 16 months of experience and now the entire nation is forced to do what he expects. If it doesnt take much to be president, it sure must take a hell of alot less to run an Amish community.

AnitaLaLouise · Senior Member

I think the problem most people have with the show is that it is completely fiction, while Discovery keeps trying top claim it's all real.

Discovery couldn't have sunk any lower. Apparently they are going after the idiot segment of the population, just like they did with TLC. I wonder if they realize that they make money off ad revenue, and their new audience doesn't have much?

1Moparsick0 · Guru

All I know is that I miss the good ole'timey

holesum programming that used to be aired, ten years ago when they where on top of there mark, not were they are now feeding of the chum from the bottom feeders. Heck...

I'd even take some Monster Garage

SherryRichard · Senior Member

I can't say I've got that desperate Mope. On the other hand I've gone back and started reading mysteries that I read in the '60's when I was in my 20's. They are harmless fun written by Dorothy L. Sayers, Charlotte MacLeod and I'll be going on to some other favorites. I'm waiting for another Lynn Kurland; she is a hoot in her time travelers. And I like pure fantasy in my books.

In terms of faith can anybody tell me what is an AnaBaptist? I was raised in the Baptist church but I have never heard of AnaBaptist.

admin · Member

Sherry,

Research Jakob Ammann and Menno Simons, they were the founders of the Amish and Mennonite faiths, respectively. The religions are both similar, and may be based on Quaker traditional worship and the systems within that faith; in fact, in Lancaster County, the Quaker and Mennonite "Brethren" joined together to form "Brotherly Aid Liability", a self-insurance scheme, which provides business liability, farm liability, and automobile insurance to it's members (usually for around $30.00 per month, for a brand new vehicle).

I do know that you are not allowed to be "baptized into the faith" until after age 18.

What was seen on "Meet the Hutterites", whilst containing some drama, would be a fairly accurate picture of a Mennonite family, with one major difference; Mennonites are not a communal sect.

(and Claudia Hofer is on my "people whom I'd like to meet list"...

ghostmonkey · Guru

For whatever reason and I cant even really put my finger on it but I reckon the show is great. No I don't believe it all but it's like a comedy drama to me. It cracks me up at times.

admin · Member

Esther Freeman Schmucker's most recently posted photo(s):

Amish-Mafia-Esther-Freeman-Schmucker-Photo-7-450x450.jpg

1Moparsick0 · Guru

SherryRichard wrote:
I can't say I've got that desperate Mope. On the other hand I've gone back and started reading mysteries that I read in the '60's when I was in my 20's. They are harmless fun written by Dorothy L. Sayers, Charlotte MacLeod and I'll be going on to some other favorites. I'm waiting for another Lynn Kurland; she is a hoot in her time travelers. And I like pure fantasy in my books.

In terms of faith can anybody tell me what is an AnaBaptist? I was raised in the Baptist church but I have never heard of AnaBaptist.

Response in Misc Topics...

rumple · Senior Member

I haven't read the article yet, but I took one look at that pic and started laughing. Look at the guy on the top left ("Levi"). Now imagine him with a shaved head. ("Hey Alvin! I'll moider him!") Shave the tweaker-style peachfuzz off the creep on the lower left, and give him a Bozo style tonsure.

Now we know who the fourth stooge was: "Mother" Schmucker!

dahammer_57 · Senior Member

They are going full on double rainbow with this shiite. As if the poo wasn't deep enough already, now they play "the" card. Makes me glad I haven't wasted a minute watching this drivel. yawn

Guess they changed their mind...it's over already with a spoonful of abuse and a you a hoe thrown in for dramatic effect.

http://hollywoodite.com/esther-freeman-schmucker-mirkat-domestic-violence

-- Edited by dahammer_57 on Friday 18th of January 2013 03:14:47 AM

Maribegood · Senior Member

SherryRichard wrote:
I can't say I've got that desperate Mope. On the other hand I've gone back and started reading mysteries that I read in the '60's when I was in my 20's. They are harmless fun written by Dorothy L. Sayers, Charlotte MacLeod and I'll be going on to some other favorites. I'm waiting for another Lynn Kurland; she is a hoot in her time travelers. And I like pure fantasy in my books.

In terms of faith can anybody tell me what is an AnaBaptist? I was raised in the Baptist church but I have never heard of AnaBaptist.

On the most basic level an AnaBaptists were a group in the Protestant Reformation that believed baptism should not take place before a vague "age of reason", but really meaning before a person could choose to be baptized for themselves. Modern Baptists are decendants of this group, as are all Christian churches who do not practice infant baptism.

Maribegood · Senior Member

How very klassy of them.

1Moparsick0 · Guru

Wow.. They kill A.C. an this is the best they can get to replace it... I thought the drama on A.C. was getting a little rehearsed or stagnate. The brass at the top must be pitching loaves other how this little series is coming apart at the seams worse than John & Kate +8...

SherryRichard · Senior Member

Maribegood, I chose to be baptised when I was 12 years old. God put it hard on my mind to do it; and the reason he had to keep after me is because I was really shy when I was 12 years old!!! My parents thought I was too young but changed their mind when I went up in front of the church. My mom told me this years later.

I was scared to go in front of the church all by myself but I knew what I was doing and I knew it was time to do it. But my youngest grandson beat me; he was 8 when he was baptised.

I have heard of the Southern Baptists but AnaBaptist is new to me.

PAMD · Senior Member

Sherry,

The Byzantine Catholic and all of Eastern Orthodoxy performs a sacrament during infancy called "Chrismation", whereby the infant is both baptized and confirmed simultaneously. In the Roman Rite, a separate sacrament of "Confirmation" is performed around the age of ten. That ceremony is usually performed by the diocesan Bishop or Cardinal in Roman Rite parishes. In Orthodox, and Eastern Rite Catholic Churches, there are no "Cardinals", only Metropolitans, Metropolitan Bishops, and Metropolitan Archbishops.

Both of my children completed twelve years of Parochial (Catholic) School, prior to their college years. The school which they attended is a Roman Catholic School, and as such, their students were required to be "Confirmed" into the faith in the fourth through sixth grades. My kids were not permitted to participate, because they had already received the Sacrament of Chrismation. The ceremony entails months of preparation, including the memorization of a pool of 100 questions, those questions are asked by the Cardinal or Bishop performing the ceremony, and in front of the entire congregation (in attendance).

-- Edited by PAMD on Thursday 14th of February 2013 05:02:29 PM

Maribegood · Senior Member

Anabaptist- "ana" means "again". They were Protestant sects accused of "baptizing believers again" because they held that infant baptism was null and void. So they reasoned that a person baptized as an infant was not truly baptized, and insisted that they be baptized after a confession of faith. This is where Catholics and Protestant churches that practiced infant baptism accused them of "baptizing again".

Mennonites, Hutterites, and the Amish can be traced back directly to the early "anabaptists" in Germany and Switzerland. Some modern Baptist churches can also trace their lineage all the way back to these groups in the Reformation. They do not like the term anabaptist, because as far as they are concerned the only true baptism is when a believer can make their own confession of faith. So infant baptism does not count.

A question for you Sherry. Would your parents have been able to stop you from being baptized at 12 since you were making your own confession of faith? Would you have needed your parents' permission since you were under 18?

SherryRichard · Senior Member

That's a good question Maribegood. Back then there was no formal permission required that I'm aware of but if my parents didn't think I was ready they could have stopped the baptism. I might have been scared silly going up in front of the church but my mom said my face looked like it was glowing and that is the reason my mom and dad didn't interfere.

I think I was a teenager before I was aware of the infant baptism and that was because my really good friend was a Catholic and she told me about it. I think a person should know what they are doing because that is a very important step to take. My youngest grandson is a very smart kid and he was ready at 8 years old. He was 5 years old when he asked me if I thought Judas was influenced by Satan to betray Jesus. And this was a casual discussion we had when I was driving him to school. And yes we have these types of discussions in our family....

SherryRichard · Senior Member

Joseph, there is a ceremony that some Protestant parents choose to dedicate their small child/infant. I believe it is two fold whereby the child is dedicated to God and the parents dedicate themselves to bring the child up in the Christian faith. I don't remember this being done in the church where I was raised so I'm thinking it is a new thing; or it is done in independent churches.

My mom almost put me in a Catholic school when I was beginning kindergarten. Probably it was the fact that my parents weren't going to join the Catholic church that put an end to their plan. My parents just wanted me to go to a good school which doesn't happen in California.

For instance when I took college classes in computer programming the teacher could not give us a straight answer (he worked for the city). The students who really wanted to learn joined little groups around people who already knew the subject; they just needed the paper to prove it. They were the ones who actually taught the class and the guy who "taught" the group I joined was really good!

Maribegood · Senior Member

Thanks for explaining it, Sherry! I know one of my Baptist friends had baby dedications in church shortly after all 3 of her children were born, so it is done by Baptists in the North, but now I am curious and will ask if this tradition is newer or always has been done in their church. Her grandparents went to this church and her mother was raised in it, so they have the experience of 3 generations within the same church community.

Like PAMD's kids I was baptized and confirmed as an infant. In Orthodoxy, you are expected to make a decision when you reach the "age of reason" on whether you will accept the vows made for you by your godparents. It becomes up to you whether you continue in the faith or not. Orthodoxy's main tenet on salvation is that you must "work out your own salvation in fear and trembling before the Lord". In other words, you are responsible for carrying out your vows and salvation is looked at as a life long process.

It makes my heart glad that your grandson can come to you with questions. I worked through a lot of my own questions about faith talking to my grandmother. I feel bad that so many kids do not have older adults to help them work out questions.

rumple · Senior Member

One of my best friends in college was Jewish, and we had some very interesting discussions about religion. One of the things we most enjoyed talking about was the fact that Jesus was Jewish, yet the organized religions based on his teachings (mainly Christianity and Islam, which both require a belief in Jesus as a basic tenet) don't require his followers to be Jewish themselves, or even to understand the basic requirements of Judaism that Jesus himself followed.

Assuming Jesus was a "good" (or practicing) Orthodox Jew - and there is no evidence to suggest he wasn't - he would have partaken in the ritual of "mikveh" (a full-immersion ritual cleansing) many times. (Muslims are also required to perform a ritual cleansing before they pray - five times a day). Both Christians and Muslims refer to Jesus as "the Messiah," though Jesus' own religion, Judaism, denies him that title or role.

John the Baptist - who, along with his father, Zechariah, are considered prophets in Islam - would have also performed mikveh many times in his life.

Those are facts, not speculation. I'm just putting them out there for consideration, since the reasons John the Baptist (whose mom was the original "Elizabeth the first" by the way) chose to perform mikveh on Jesus in the Jordan river that day are open to interpretation, as is the ritual of "baptism" derived from that act.

Sometimes it's more important to consider the similarities in beliefs rather than the differences.

-- Edited by rumple on Friday 15th of February 2013 09:28:18 AM

1Moparsick0 · Guru

Wow.. They kill A.C. an this is the best they can get to replace it... I thought the drama on A.C. was getting a little rehearsed or stagnate. The brass at the top must be pitching loaves over the sheet cakes these brainstorms are churning out.

I heard this morning that the Amish Mafia stars gave a little bit of their 15 Min of fame to my little home county of Perry County. Seems one of the stars got busted in the Newport-New Bloomfield, Duncannon area after a little fleeing after being pursued, an was caught with a little of the corn they grow.

-- Edited by 1Moparsick0 on Friday 15th of February 2013 11:47:41 AM

AnitaLaLouise · Senior Member

Islam looks at Jesus as a prophet (one of many) rather than a savior though, so it's a bit different.

Originally Christianity did require all of it's adherents to follow Jewish teachings. It was Paul who pushed to open up Christianity to Gentiles, not requiring that they convert to Judaism. But...Paul also pushed for many of the changes that make Christianity seem less "Christian" than Jesus probably would have liked it. Relegating women to a subservient role, condemning gays, etc. Plus the fact that he never actually met Jesus in his lifetime, so is hardly the best person to decide the fate of his teachings. He's not my favorite person in the New Testament, really.

The bit of Christianity that was (and is) anti-Semitic was the result of Constantine taking over as head of the Church of Rome. Which is also where Pontius Pilate was mythologized as being less responsible for crucifying Jesus and the blame was shifted to the Temple High Priests instead. The Catholic Church in particular has much more to do with Roman empirical tradition than it does with actual Christian belief and teaching (at least when you look at it from the actual words of Jesus as reported in the bible).

Maribegood · Senior Member

rumple wrote:
One of my best friends in college was Jewish, and we had some very interesting discussions about religion. One of the things we most enjoyed talking about was the fact that Jesus was Jewish, yet the organized religions based on his teachings (mainly Christianity and Islam, which both require a belief in Jesus as a basic tenet) don't require his followers to be Jewish themselves, or even to understand the basic requirements of Judaism that Jesus himself followed.
Assuming Jesus was a "good" (or practicing) Orthodox Jew - and there is no evidence to suggest he wasn't - he would have partaken in the ritual of "mikveh" (a full-immersion ritual cleansing) many times. (Muslims are also required to perform a ritual cleansing before they pray - five times a day). Both Christians and Muslims refer to Jesus as "the Messiah," though Jesus' own religion, Judaism, denies him that title or role.
John the Baptist - who, along with his father, Zechariah, are considered prophets in Islam - would have also performed mikveh many times in his life.
Those are facts, not speculation. I'm just putting them out there for consideration, since the reasons John the Baptist (whose mom was the original "Elizabeth the first" by the way) chose to perform mikveh on Jesus in the Jordan river that day are open to interpretation, as is the ritual of "baptism" derived from that act.
Sometimes it's more important to consider the similarities in beliefs rather than the differences.

-- Edited by rumple on Friday 15th of February 2013 09:28:18 AM

Mikveh for men was required in order for a man to be able to make sacrifices in the Temple. That is the reason male mikveh usage has all but disappeared in modern Judaism except in some Hasidic sects. No temple, no sacrifice. Mikveh has been kept for modern Orthodox Jewish women in order to mark the transition from ritually impure to ritually pure for sexual relations.

John was circumventing the requirement for temple sacrifice by immersing and declaring that sins were forgiven. There were a lot of different strains of Jewish ritual practice competing at the time of Jesus's ministry. John and the Essenes both shared a practice of purification from sin by immersion. This was different from traditional mikveh in that in traditional mikveh the immersion made a man worthy to be able to offer sacrifices at the temple for sins. Jesus was a practicing Jew, but he wasn't a practicing rabbinical Jew of the modern era. It's a fine point, but it is a difference that seperated John's Judaism, the Essenes' Judaism, and Jewish priestly practice. The Essenes also did not make temple sacrifices.

One thing is for sure, I don't think either Jesus or John imagined the immersion of infants. That was developed much later in Christian tradition.

I would say the Gospel of John can be used by any modern anti-semite to justify their hatred if they want. There are two big philosophical traditions Paul was trying to reconcile, Judaism and Hellenism (Greekness). They don't have a lot in common and the Greeks had pretty much won the philosophical debate by 150 AD. The Temple goes down in ashes and two modern religions are born, rabbinic Judaism and Christianity.

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A look at the real people behind the characters of 'Amish Mafia'