The Original American Chopper Fan Forum, and the new, and Original Orange County Choppers on CMT Fan Forum

I still don't get why you think it was because of Jr that Discovery cancelled the show. The show has been on the chopping block for a while now, as the show is "encountering a period of declining ad revenues", and apparently "high costs of production for a reality series". So how is that Jr's fault? Sr is the one who has scared away companies with his bad imagine. 

ghostmonkey wrote:

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Izzy Ryder wrote:

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This was the excerpt which brought up a lot of speculation about Jr's actions on the set........

Quote from article......
".....At one point when shooting the current final season, Piligian fired Junior and kicked him off the set. “It’s a very tumultuous relationship, not only between the father and son, but between us as well,” Piligian says. “Junior and I would have it out, and at one point awhile back, I said, ‘We’re done with you.’” The two reconciled and Junior returned to work shortly thereafter..... "

Why would Piligian share this little tidbit with the public which until recently thought Jr was the biggest "angel" of the show?

-- Edited by Izzy Ryder on Tuesday 27th of November 2012 01:58:19 PM

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 We've known for a long time the they don't get on. Jr's actions on set is not why the show was cancelled. Who cares why he said it, it has no real bearing on anything.

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 When was it mentioned anywhere before? Why are you so eager to dismiss it?

Izzy Ryder wrote:

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This was the excerpt which brought up a lot of speculation about Jr's actions on the set........

Quote from article......
".....At one point when shooting the current final season, Piligian fired Junior and kicked him off the set. “It’s a very tumultuous relationship, not only between the father and son, but between us as well,” Piligian says. “Junior and I would have it out, and at one point awhile back, I said, ‘We’re done with you.’” The two reconciled and Junior returned to work shortly thereafter..... "

Why would Piligian share this little tidbit with the public which until recently thought Jr was the biggest "angel" of the show?

-- Edited by Izzy Ryder on Tuesday 27th of November 2012 01:58:19 PM

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 We've known for a long time the they don't get on. Jr's actions on set is not why the show was cancelled. Who cares why he said it, it has no real bearing on anything.

jakemac wrote:

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After the first episode aired 10 years ago, Sr called Piligian and went psycho on him over the phone about how his family was portrayed on the show. The two of them got past it, and the show continued.

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 Can you show me a link to the article pertaining to that conversation please? I never read that article.

Izzy Ryder wrote:

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jakemac wrote:

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After the first episode aired 10 years ago, Sr called Piligian and went psycho on him over the phone about how his family was portrayed on the show. The two of them got past it, and the show continued.

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 Can you show me a link to the article pertaining to that conversation please? I never read that article.

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 Sr has talked about it on the show a few times.

Izzy Ryder wrote:

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jakemac wrote:

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After the first episode aired 10 years ago, Sr called Piligian and went psycho on him over the phone about how his family was portrayed on the show. The two of them got past it, and the show continued.

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 Can you show me a link to the article pertaining to that conversation please? I never read that article.

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 Check out any of the History of the Show episodes, or Sr's book. 

ghostmonkey wrote:

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Izzy Ryder wrote:

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This was the excerpt which brought up a lot of speculation about Jr's actions on the set........

Quote from article......
".....At one point when shooting the current final season, Piligian fired Junior and kicked him off the set. “It’s a very tumultuous relationship, not only between the father and son, but between us as well,” Piligian says. “Junior and I would have it out, and at one point awhile back, I said, ‘We’re done with you.’” The two reconciled and Junior returned to work shortly thereafter..... "

Why would Piligian share this little tidbit with the public which until recently thought Jr was the biggest "angel" of the show?

-- Edited by Izzy Ryder on Tuesday 27th of November 2012 01:58:19 PM

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 We've known for a long time the they don't get on. Jr's actions on set is not why the show was cancelled. Who cares why he said it, it has no real bearing on anything.

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 Monkey see. Monkey do. Don't be ignorant. If Junior was such an "Angel" the golden boy wouldn't be kicked off the set. His immature actions and decisions put stress on his crew and father. And Piligian. I hope someone beats him in the build-off.

anotheridiot wrote:

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 funny how you say sr was slapping metal on tanks lol, I guess he gave jr the idea to rivet metal together to make a gas tank that wont hold gas and then slap metal on a camaro and call it a creation. Sr even taught him how to do that? thanks, I didnt even think about that.

Here is the difference. You ask sr about something OCC built, the answer is WE

you ask jr, the answer is me and I. 

Thats the basic difference and arrogance people who cant stand jr see.

But dont go making it sound like jr did everything on bikes. the old ones you write about were jr and vinnie creations. I dont see you giving any credit to vinnie for all the work he did on those famous bikes while jr was mia. You never saw jr doing any finish welding on all those show stoppers did you? They were tacked together and done by others off camera. You also dont consider how much time he was paid for to make those bikes while dear old dad was running production bikes and other customers that didnt want "theme" bikes. Dont make it sound like Jr built every single bike that went thru occ. they were building 3 while jr was "designing" one.

Kissing jr's feet, well I guess thats better than what jr expects.........his father to be kissing his ass.

How much did Jr put into OCC monetarily? 0 How much work did he do for free while the company was growing 0, he was paid every day. Did he buy the steel, frames, wheels, tires, no dad did. 20% was far more than adequate after buying jr his mansion. That was bought by OCC. thats probably worth another 12-15% more. 

As far as why the cafe, it looks like they took over a big portion of the building, which means there is a business helping to pay the mortgage on the building. Thats smart business. You guarantee there are no ties with occ employess, I guess you know better than me, just saying its possible, just like Rachael running the PJD Boutique t shirt online store. 

If PJD had a cafe, he would find a way to make your **** have a PJD emblem.

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 LMFAO Then why on the OCC website did Sr change his bio from co-founder to founder? Cant rewrite history. Why in the build off was every PJD employee there while all the OCC crew were at home? Sr has always been about me, me, me. Heck look at what he said to Vinnie. Vinnie was not a fabricator brfore OCC he was a mechanic. Jr taught Vinnie

Dennis Vittum about Jr, Paul Jr does very tidy work in fabrication on his motorcycles it's time consuming and there is a lot of welds but this is very nice work, it just flows I come from an art background and believe me that's art.

Vinnie about Jr, It's very inspiring working with Paul, he sees what the finish product before it's actually done I think it's very hard for a lot of people. The way he fabricates is kinda like on a higher level to anything I have ever seen anyway. He is so good at what he does it makes me feel good when he asks me my opinion on stuff, is this true or does that look good and I like that it makes me think that he trusts me.

Dear old dad was not running the production bikes and non theme bikes in the early days of OCC. What a load of BS.

How do you know Jr put up 0 and didn't do free work? Heck Sr didn't pay Vinnie or Cody all of what they earned while at OCC so why would he have paid everything to Jr?

anotheridiot wrote:

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I still want to know what is considered the set. To me it sounds like he was kicked out of the building discovery supplied him to build bikes. What other set is there and if it was jr's leased building, how could he be kicked out?

Jr was kicked off the set before the show was cancelled. To me that was the last straw. Has the PJD address changed?

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 Apparently Junior is a twofaced liar. On air he's knocking it out the park. And barking orders like Senior. off air a crook with a check book trying to give Piligian a hard time and got booted haha.

anotheridiot wrote:

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I still want to know what is considered the set. To me it sounds like he was kicked out of the building discovery supplied him to build bikes. What other set is there and if it was jr's leased building, how could he be kicked out?

Jr was kicked off the set before the show was cancelled. To me that was the last straw. Has the PJD address changed?

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 Why did they have to beg Jr to do the whole Sr v Jr thing in the first place? If he is so bad to work with why didn't Piligian do the show with just Sr like what Sr wanted? Oh that's right the actual people who pays for the show Discovery said no Jr = no show. 

AC had been on the chopping block for a while now, as the show is "encountering a period of declining ad revenues", and apparently "high costs of production for a reality series".

So stop the BS. If anything Sr would be more to blame because of his negative imagine and his meeting with Steve M backs that up.

Steve says well at some point I think what you are going to do and I know we don't want to do that but this has effected our business in a few different ways.

This morning me and Sr had a talk about the prescription of OCC in the general public's eyes, now moving forward and if were doing restaurants we don't want that negative thing so one of our goals is to get this farken negative **** behind us so the business opportunity's successful and positive.

So the declining revenue can be linked dirrectly to Sr and his negative imagine.

anotheridiot wrote:

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I still want to know what is considered the set. To me it sounds like he was kicked out of the building discovery supplied him to build bikes. What other set is there and if it was jr's leased building, how could he be kicked out?

Jr was kicked off the set before the show was cancelled. To me that was the last straw. Has the PJD address changed?

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ghostmonkey wrote:

 Why did they have to beg Jr to do the whole Sr v Jr thing in the first place? If he is so bad to work with why didn't Piligian do the show with just Sr like what Sr wanted? Oh that's right the actual people who pays for the show Discovery said no Jr = no show. 

 

AC had been on the chopping block for a while now, as the show is "encountering a period of declining ad revenues", and apparently "high costs of production for a reality series".

 

So stop the BS. If anything Sr would be more to blame because of his negative imagine and his meeting with Steve M backs that up.

 

Steve says well at some point I think what you are going to do and I know we don't want to do that but this has effected our business in a few different ways.

This morning me and Sr had a talk about the prescription of OCC in the general public's eyes, now moving forward and if were doing restaurants we don't want that negative thing so one of our goals is to get this farken negative **** behind us so the business opportunity's successful and positive.

 

So the declining revenue can be linked dirrectly to Sr and his negative imagine.

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 Why are you asking me all these questions and directing all your jr infatuation towards me?

Jr said no show, and jr said no to the first bike build off for 6 months until he got all his vendors to build him the custom wheels and garnish they riveted onto the bicycle they built. Just like the buildoff being a popularity contest, so was american chopper. I would watch american chopper at occ only, at jesse's shop, at whats left of west coast choppers, down in some alley on lake street in chicago to actually see motorcycles being built and not t shirt and kid bike ads run on discoveries dime.

I just asked what is considered a set? There are two film crews that follow two sets of people around. Where is the high cost of production unless it is including a building and leasing equipment for jr?

Negative image has nothing to do with selling cheeseburgers. I hate the plastic burger king man, I will still eat there. You can turn this any way you want, if sr wants something, sr pays for it. He does not go around begging companies to let them have equipment to advertise on their show. Lets see how many pull their equipment out of the discovery building.

Declining revenue can be linked to both of them and their childish fued, in no way is it more of either of these goofs fault.

ghostmonkey wrote:

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anotheridiot wrote:

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 Why are you asking me all these questions and directing all your jr infatuation towards me?

Jr said no show, and jr said no to the first bike build off for 6 months until he got all his vendors to build him the custom wheels and garnish they riveted onto the bicycle they built. Just like the buildoff being a popularity contest, so was american chopper. I would watch american chopper at occ only, at jesse's shop, at whats left of west coast choppers, down in some alley on lake street in chicago to actually see motorcycles being built and not t shirt and kid bike ads run on discoveries dime.

I just asked what is considered a set? There are two film crews that follow two sets of people around. Where is the high cost of production unless it is including a building and leasing equipment for jr?

Negative image has nothing to do with selling cheeseburgers. I hate the plastic burger king man, I will still eat there. You can turn this any way you want, if sr wants something, sr pays for it. He does not go around begging companies to let them have equipment to advertise on their show. Lets see how many pull their equipment out of the discovery building.

Declining revenue can be linked to both of them and their childish fued, in no way is it more of either of these goofs fault.

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 They're not, you want to blame Jr when you have no evidence what's so ever. Sr was also given a lot of equipment but you forget that.... Then why did Sr wait till after he was on CA and made up with Jr if his negative imagine wasn't stopping the cafe? Why wait so long to open it? Well that childish feud was pushed by Pilgain so is it his fault for the declining revenue?

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 You will never understand. Even John Frickin Kennedy gave his father credit for his career. Did you ever think that Sr made up with Jr just because he wanted to? He can retire now and sell off his company, garage full of collector cars, property, llamas and live well the rest of his life. What makes you think he needs the revenue from the cafe? He is not looking out for Sr, he is looking out for the families of his employees, just like he looked out for his son by letting him keep bankers hours at a bike shop. Who works at the cafe? Any guesses that maybe wifes and families of his bike builders might work there?

You can argue all you want, we might as well go to what came first, the chicken or the egg, but bottom line, Sr came first not jr.

How many bikes did Sr build before jr got involved? They sold the first bike THEY built together, not the first bike sr ever built.

ghostmonkey wrote:

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And like I've stated how would any of us know if he did or didn't give credit to Sr? No I don't believe that at all. Why wait 4 years to make up. Why do it after you have talked about how business was hurting because of it. He has a partner in the cafe who had invested money so yes he wants it to be successful, why else would he open it, just so he can close it in 6 months? If he was looking out for the family's he wouldn't open something that is going to fail. And no it's not family members of OCC that work in the cafe. Where do you come up with that?

Sr never built ANY bikes before he got Jr involved, OCC wasn't started when Sr was so called building bikes in his basement if u call taking Harley's and other bikes and slapping metal on the tanks and fenders and repainting them building bikes. When Jr was working in the railing department at OCIW, he would come over and help his dad with bikes in his basement but when they decided to make it a business, Sr pulled Jr out of OCIW to fabricate because Jr could do what Sr could, and that's FABRICATE.

So like I said Jr and Sr started OCC so in other words Jr was not only a part owner but he is also a co-founder of the company, now u got it reversed when u say that if it wasn't for Sr Jr wouldn't have the house or his toys, Sr is the one with the big house and the nice collection of expensive cars and that nice big glass building that houses the majority of Jr's bikes and that's because of Jr's creations and designs, so in other words Jr is the one that made OCC what it is so by right, Sr should not only give Jr more then 20% share but Sr should be kissing Jr's feet for what he did for the company. All of the earlier bikes, that made OCC what it is, The Spiderman Bike that got OCC noticed by Discovery Channel, The Jet Bike that started it all, The Black Widow, The Fire Bike, The Comanche Chopper, were all CREATED, DESIGNED, FABRICATED and BUILT by Jr, not only that but it was Jr's idea for them to build theme bikes then what Sr wanted and that was old school and it was Also Jr's idea for the format of the show then what Discovery wanted them to do and that was to take a bike out of a junkyard and make it into a chopper but it was Jr's idea for Discovery to follow them building a bike form fabrication to concept since they were building a bike (The Jet Bike) for Laconia Bike Week and they agreed and the rest is history and all of the things that I have said was documented on either American Chopper the original series season 1 or The History Of OCC. Jr played a bigger role then you give him credit for.

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 funny how you say sr was slapping metal on tanks lol, I guess he gave jr the idea to rivet metal together to make a gas tank that wont hold gas and then slap metal on a camaro and call it a creation. Sr even taught him how to do that? thanks, I didnt even think about that.

Here is the difference. You ask sr about something OCC built, the answer is WE

you ask jr, the answer is me and I. 

Thats the basic difference and arrogance people who cant stand jr see.

But dont go making it sound like jr did everything on bikes. the old ones you write about were jr and vinnie creations. I dont see you giving any credit to vinnie for all the work he did on those famous bikes while jr was mia. You never saw jr doing any finish welding on all those show stoppers did you? They were tacked together and done by others off camera. You also dont consider how much time he was paid for to make those bikes while dear old dad was running production bikes and other customers that didnt want "theme" bikes. Dont make it sound like Jr built every single bike that went thru occ. they were building 3 while jr was "designing" one.

Kissing jr's feet, well I guess thats better than what jr expects.........his father to be kissing his ass.

How much did Jr put into OCC monetarily? 0 How much work did he do for free while the company was growing 0, he was paid every day. Did he buy the steel, frames, wheels, tires, no dad did. 20% was far more than adequate after buying jr his mansion. That was bought by OCC. thats probably worth another 12-15% more. 

As far as why the cafe, it looks like they took over a big portion of the building, which means there is a business helping to pay the mortgage on the building. Thats smart business. You guarantee there are no ties with occ employess, I guess you know better than me, just saying its possible, just like Rachael running the PJD Boutique t shirt online store. 

If PJD had a cafe, he would find a way to make your **** have a PJD emblem.

Izzy Ryder wrote:

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ghostmonkey wrote:

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Sr never built ANY bikes before he got Jr involved, OCC wasn't started when Sr was so called building bikes in his basement if u call taking Harley's and other bikes and slapping metal on the tanks and fenders and repainting them building bikes. When Jr was working in the railing department at OCIW, he would come over and help his dad with bikes in his basement but when they decided to make it a business, Sr pulled Jr out of OCIW to fabricate because Jr could do what Sr could, and that's FABRICATE.

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 I don't believe Jr had any involvement in this bike build.....

Excerpt from Sr's book....

"The Sunshine Bike"

"Sunshine was my first Harley, it’s a 1974 FX Superglide. It’s called Sunshine because of the sunny paint job. I changed this bike a dozen times over the years, but to this day, it’s still my favorite. Incidentally, I have a tattoo of the sun featured on the gas tank."

http://autobikegallery.com/orangecountychoppers-sunshine/

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 And what did Sr frabricate on that bike?

Izzy Ryder wrote:

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"The Sunshine Bike"

"Sunshine was my first Harley, it’s a 1974 FX Superglide. It’s called Sunshine because of the sunny paint job. I changed this bike a dozen times over the years, but to this day, it’s still my favorite. Incidentally, I have a tattoo of the sun featured on the gas tank."

http://autobikegallery.com/orangecountychoppers-sunshine/

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 Holy Crap!!! I'm a freakin Bike Builder!!

I have a '98 Harley FXSTC that I have changed the stock transmission to a 6 speed and the stock exhaust to Vance & Hinds Short Shots. I've changed it over the years adding a windshielsd and Arlin Ness Footpegs and Handlebar Grips.

Who knew it was so easy to be a builder 

ghostmonkey wrote:

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Izzy Ryder wrote:

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 I don't believe Jr had any involvement in this bike build.....

Excerpt from Sr's book....

"The Sunshine Bike"

"Sunshine was my first Harley, it’s a 1974 FX Superglide. It’s called Sunshine because of the sunny paint job. I changed this bike a dozen times over the years, but to this day, it’s still my favorite. Incidentally, I have a tattoo of the sun featured on the gas tank."

http://autobikegallery.com/orangecountychoppers-sunshine/

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 And what did Sr frabricate on that bike?

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Yes it's very reminiscent of Jr's first builds isn't it? About 99% off the shelf parts  ......... and was Jr involved?

This is the same old

Junior=good
Senior=bad

When people begin from the perspective, then you have the comments above.

If Senior wishes to be a little nicer to Junior, well that is bad because he is only doing it because he wants to be more popular. If Senior is not a little nicer, well that is bad because it shows he has no concern for his son.

Never will Senior get any credit what so ever in some people's minds, and conversely never will Junior do anything that will even remotely come close to being negative or bad.