The Original American Chopper Fan Forum, and the new, and Original Orange County Choppers on CMT Fan Forum

Izzy Ryder · Senior Member

Whole show on T-shirts?????

ElGuapo · Guru

PJD pretty much spent the entire last show, or most of it anyway, look at and trying on t-shirts. And wasn't it great when everyone lined up, with matching shirts for the bikes???? That is true biker style there. And Vinnie hugging up on another man is just not right.

But I did laugh when Junior was feeling the fabrics and commenting on quality and characteristics of "good" cloth. NAPA valley look out!!!!!!

ghostmonkey · Guru

Yeah they should be building the PJD Studio bike.

1Moparsick0 · Senior Member

Keep using that avatar an you'll be feeling like cody when he hopped on the bike biggrin

anotheridiot · Guru

ghostmonkey wrote:
anotheridiot wrote:
ElGuapo wrote:
PJD pretty much spent the entire last show, or most of it anyway, look at and trying on t-shirts. And wasn't it great when everyone lined up, with matching shirts for the bikes???? That is true biker style there. And Vinnie hugging up on another man is just not right.

But I did laugh when Junior was feeling the fabrics and commenting on quality and characteristics of "good" cloth. NAPA valley look out!!!!!!
maybe you havent noticed, but jr has not built a bike over the past 3 or 4 shows. He turned down a bike build for the playground.
Maybe you havent noticed, but OCC has spent most of this season building bikes for themselves. At least Jr has had real clients.

Had real clients lol. If someone wont pay him 160k, he wont build a bike that he cant tell them what its gonna look like when it is finished.

The mini super bike was not an OCC bike, bigassfans was not an occ bike, the antler bike was not occ, my pillow was not occ. PJD did the skil bike this season, but that was built and unveiled 8 months ago and just was on this season.

Its still funny to me how every bike jr ever built is sitting in his shop. I think he has made more on storage than the build with all the one off farmed out machined parts. I think so far its twice as many customer bikes for OCC.

-- Edited by anotheridiot on Wednesday 21st of November 2012 02:49:53 PM

anotheridiot · Guru

ElGuapo wrote:
PJD pretty much spent the entire last show, or most of it anyway, look at and trying on t-shirts. And wasn't it great when everyone lined up, with matching shirts for the bikes???? That is true biker style there. And Vinnie hugging up on another man is just not right.

But I did laugh when Junior was feeling the fabrics and commenting on quality and characteristics of "good" cloth. NAPA valley look out!!!!!!

maybe you havent noticed, but jr has not built a bike over the past 3 or 4 shows. He turned down a bike build for the playground.

ghostmonkey · Guru

anotheridiot wrote:
ElGuapo wrote:
PJD pretty much spent the entire last show, or most of it anyway, look at and trying on t-shirts. And wasn't it great when everyone lined up, with matching shirts for the bikes???? That is true biker style there. And Vinnie hugging up on another man is just not right.

But I did laugh when Junior was feeling the fabrics and commenting on quality and characteristics of "good" cloth. NAPA valley look out!!!!!!
maybe you havent noticed, but jr has not built a bike over the past 3 or 4 shows. He turned down a bike build for the playground.

Maybe you havent noticed, but OCC has spent most of this season building bikes for themselves. At least Jr has had real clients.

ghostmonkey · Guru

anotheridiot wrote:
ghostmonkey wrote:
anotheridiot wrote:
ElGuapo wrote:
PJD pretty much spent the entire last show, or most of it anyway, look at and trying on t-shirts. And wasn't it great when everyone lined up, with matching shirts for the bikes???? That is true biker style there. And Vinnie hugging up on another man is just not right.

But I did laugh when Junior was feeling the fabrics and commenting on quality and characteristics of "good" cloth. NAPA valley look out!!!!!!
maybe you havent noticed, but jr has not built a bike over the past 3 or 4 shows. He turned down a bike build for the playground.
Maybe you havent noticed, but OCC has spent most of this season building bikes for themselves. At least Jr has had real clients.
Had real clients lol. If someone wont pay him 160k, he wont build a bike that he cant tell them what its gonna look like when it is finished.
The mini super bike was not an OCC bike, bigassfans was not an occ bike, the antler bike was not occ, my pillow was not occ. PJD did the skil bike this season, but that was built and unveiled 8 months ago and just was on this season.
Its still funny to me how every bike jr ever built is sitting in his shop. I think he has made more on storage than the build with all the one off farmed out machined parts. I think so far its twice as many customer bikes for OCC.

-- Edited by anotheridiot on Wednesday 21st of November 2012 02:49:53 PM

The Super bike was a pay off to Sr's partner. So OCC built 1 bike for the cafe another bike for the cafe partner and a bike for Sr. The only real clients have been Trusted Choice insurance, Wildgame Innovations, Big Ass Fans and The Venetian. My pillow wasn't even this season.

PJD has had GEICO Armed Forces tribute bike, Loopster trike, QUBX, RoadLoK and Cre8Play. Plus they partnered with Dynacraft and Bioworld to release bicycles and tshirts. Much better then making bikes for yourself like OCC.

And what do you think fills the WHQ? Twice as many customer bikes? WTF Do you base that on?

Izzy Ryder · Senior Member

I just visited PaulJrDesigns.com to see all the bikes he has built so far. Can you believe there's no gallery of his bikes on the company's website?
All I could find was clothing and souvenirs. Also a link to Renegade wheels. I guess he's a dealer for them.

ghostmonkey · Guru

Yeah he never has.

Izzy Ryder · Senior Member

I wonder what the reasoning is behind that. Everyone wants the public to see their works.
Could it be copyright issues?

ghostmonkey · Guru

Izzy Ryder wrote:
I wonder what the reasoning is behind that. Everyone wants the public to see their works.
Could it be copyright issues?

Possibly because he knows that so many of his fans use FB and maybe because of when you do a web search the second site that comes up is http://www.designbyjoyce.com/pauljr/bikes.html where all his bikes are listed with pics. That's my best guess.

Izzy Ryder · Senior Member

Who is this Joyce person? What is her connection to him? Is this some sort of fan club?

jakemac · Senior Member

On the old board, designbyjoyce would often break news by posting under a different user name. The user's name was no secret, but I won't spoil the illusion, in case that name pops up here. It's not my news to tell.

Exactly what relation designbyjoyce has with Jr/PJD, I don't know. But the info would came from a closer source than just a casual observer, and never violated a confidentiality trust.

It's too bad that he/she didn't follow us over to the new board. Perhaps an invite is in order ?

Izzy Ryder · Senior Member

She certainly has access to the type of photos you would see in a private family album.

anotheridiot · Guru

ghostmonkey wrote:
anotheridiot wrote:
ghostmonkey wrote:
anotheridiot wrote:
ElGuapo wrote:
PJD pretty much spent the entire last show, or most of it anyway, look at and trying on t-shirts. And wasn't it great when everyone lined up, with matching shirts for the bikes???? That is true biker style there. And Vinnie hugging up on another man is just not right.

But I did laugh when Junior was feeling the fabrics and commenting on quality and characteristics of "good" cloth. NAPA valley look out!!!!!!
maybe you havent noticed, but jr has not built a bike over the past 3 or 4 shows. He turned down a bike build for the playground.
Maybe you havent noticed, but OCC has spent most of this season building bikes for themselves. At least Jr has had real clients.
Had real clients lol. If someone wont pay him 160k, he wont build a bike that he cant tell them what its gonna look like when it is finished.
The mini super bike was not an OCC bike, bigassfans was not an occ bike, the antler bike was not occ, my pillow was not occ. PJD did the skil bike this season, but that was built and unveiled 8 months ago and just was on this season.
Its still funny to me how every bike jr ever built is sitting in his shop. I think he has made more on storage than the build with all the one off farmed out machined parts. I think so far its twice as many customer bikes for OCC.

-- Edited by anotheridiot on Wednesday 21st of November 2012 02:49:53 PM
The Super bike was a pay off to Sr's partner. So OCC built 1 bike for the cafe another bike for the cafe partner and a bike for Sr. The only real clients have been Trusted Choice insurance, Wildgame Innovations, Big Ass Fans and The Venetian. My pillow wasn't even this season.

PJD has had GEICO Armed Forces tribute bike, Loopster trike, QUBX, RoadLoK and Cre8Play. Plus they partnered with Dynacraft and Bioworld to release bicycles and tshirts. Much better then making bikes for yourself like OCC.

And what do you think fills the WHQ? Twice as many customer bikes? WTF Do you base that on?

Why do you add Cre8play to the list of bikes he built, just to blindly make him at 5 bikes and Sr at 4? He used cre8 play to build a monument to himself, copying the work he did already. And all they did was the black widow frame after cre8 play sent him the designs, completely numbered so they would not screw up. All other parts of the monument were fabbed and the black widow tank was all finished up at cre8 play. And if you really want to split hairs, just because he had nub change the logo on the black widow, it was still an occ bike.

ghostmonkey · Guru

anotheridiot wrote:
The Super bike was a pay off to Sr's partner. So OCC built 1 bike for the cafe another bike for the cafe partner and a bike for Sr. The only real clients have been Trusted Choice insurance, Wildgame Innovations, Big Ass Fans and The Venetian. My pillow wasn't even this season.

PJD has had GEICO Armed Forces tribute bike, Loopster trike, QUBX, RoadLoK and Cre8Play. Plus they partnered with Dynacraft and Bioworld to release bicycles and tshirts. Much better then making bikes for yourself like OCC.

And what do you think fills the WHQ? Twice as many customer bikes? WTF Do you base that on?
Why do you add Cre8play to the list of bikes he built, just to blindly make him at 5 bikes and Sr at 4? He used cre8 play to build a monument to himself, copying the work he did already. And all they did was the black widow frame after cre8 play sent him the designs, completely numbered so they would not screw up. All other parts of the monument were fabbed and the black widow tank was all finished up at cre8 play. And if you really want to split hairs, just because he had nub change the logo on the black widow, it was still an occ bike.

Because we were talking about clients and Cre8play was a client. What happen with I think so far its twice as many customer bikes for OCC.???

ghostmonkey · Guru

The Black Widow is a Jr bike.

1Moparsick0 · Senior Member

anotheridiot wrote:
And if you really want to split hairs, just because he had nub change the logo on the black widow, it was still an occ bike.

Junior fabbed the bike in 2003, an updated it an rebuilt it after languishing neglected by Paulie's father. But it is Paul Jr designs bike, as PauL Jr. DESIGNED it!!

anotheridiot · Guru

He didnt do any updating, they changed the oil and fixed some wiring.

Thats how lost you guys are in the corporate world. Anything Jason Poole designs at OCC belongs to OCC. Its not his personal ****. Since Jr was employed at OCC during the build and OCC paid all the hours of fabrication to its employees, its an OCC bike. Its the same as removing all Chevrolet Badges from the rivet car and saying paul jr designed the ****ing car.

All these excuses are honestly why our world is in so much trouble. I did it, I own it. Get real.

Cre8 play wanted to be a client. He wanted a motorcycle, jr would not do it, instead he wanted to pretend to be a designer of a dog park that someone else drew too. Who turns down business to build monuments is a person with major issues, you guys follow him like the germans followed hitler.

jakemac · Senior Member

anotheridiot wrote:
.... you guys follow him like the germans followed hitler.

Funny,

But Jr didn't invade Poland, he just built a bike for them. I think that ElG might take offense at the inference that Rachael is a modern day Eva Braun.

ghostmonkey · Guru

anotheridiot wrote:
He didnt do any updating, they changed the oil and fixed some wiring.

Thats how lost you guys are in the corporate world. Anything Jason Poole designs at OCC belongs to OCC. Its not his personal ****. Since Jr was employed at OCC during the build and OCC paid all the hours of fabrication to its employees, its an OCC bike. Its the same as removing all Chevrolet Badges from the rivet car and saying paul jr designed the ****ing car.

All these excuses are honestly why our world is in so much trouble. I did it, I own it. Get real.

Cre8 play wanted to be a client. He wanted a motorcycle, jr would not do it, instead he wanted to pretend to be a designer of a dog park that someone else drew too. Who turns down business to build monuments is a person with major issues, you guys follow him like the germans followed hitler.

Check out the pics before and after and you would see the changes. And they were a client, they got there ad time just like all the companys who come to get a bike. It's all about advertising your company not nessesarlly to do with bikes.

rumple · Veteran Member

I don't think it'll make any difference. Anotheridiot seems to hate Jr. personally, like he stole a girlfriend or beat up his mama. Perhaps he's just disappointed that Senior didn't torch Junior for real, or actually shoot him off a ramp.

On the IMDB board for Hayden Pannetiere (sp) there's this bizarre Japanese chick who despises Hayden, but claims it has something to do with eggs. (Regular chicken eggs, I should be clear on that.) Maybe she's not the only one whose breakfast whispers to her...

rumple · Veteran Member

Anybody else notice that Senior didn't even bother denying Vinnie's claim that Senior had ripped him off for backpay? Would you quit working for someone who promised to pay you for your work, then didn't? Why would anybody claim that Vinnie is at fault for doing exactly the same thing they would?

anotheridiot · Guru

rumple wrote:
I don't think it'll make any difference. Anotheridiot seems to hate Jr. personally, like he stole a girlfriend or beat up his mama. Perhaps he's just disappointed that Senior didn't torch Junior for real, or actually shoot him off a ramp.

On the IMDB board for Hayden Pannetiere (sp) there's this bizarre Japanese chick who despises Hayden, but claims it has something to do with eggs. (Regular chicken eggs, I should be clear on that.) Maybe she's not the only one whose breakfast whispers to her...

Its past a hate for jr, its all the blind fans that just follow him and constantly jump on sr for everything negative that ever happened. When jr worked til 8 pm, he came in the next day at noon. Vinnie started at regular time.

Jr is not a designer, he is a sculptor, creator, he cannot put anything down on paper. If anyone would at least agree with that it might not be so sad watching all the lemmings follow him off the cliff.

It was really sad to see jr out of work living in his half million dollar house that OCC paid for. The house was paid for by OCC and stayed with jr. the black widow was paid for by occ and stayed with jr. But nobody sees that. Sr could have thrown him on the street, and most people are treating him like he did.

ghostmonkey · Guru

anotheridiot wrote:
rumple wrote:
I don't think it'll make any difference. Anotheridiot seems to hate Jr. personally, like he stole a girlfriend or beat up his mama. Perhaps he's just disappointed that Senior didn't torch Junior for real, or actually shoot him off a ramp.

On the IMDB board for Hayden Pannetiere (sp) there's this bizarre Japanese chick who despises Hayden, but claims it has something to do with eggs. (Regular chicken eggs, I should be clear on that.) Maybe she's not the only one whose breakfast whispers to her...
Its past a hate for jr, its all the blind fans that just follow him and constantly jump on sr for everything negative that ever happened. When jr worked til 8 pm, he came in the next day at noon. Vinnie started at regular time.

Jr is not a designer, he is a sculptor, creator, he cannot put anything down on paper. If anyone would at least agree with that it might not be so sad watching all the lemmings follow him off the cliff.

It was really sad to see jr out of work living in his half million dollar house that OCC paid for. The house was paid for by OCC and stayed with jr. the black widow was paid for by occ and stayed with jr. But nobody sees that. Sr could have thrown him on the street, and most people are treating him like he did.

Discovery paid for Sr's and Jr's houses. And Jason is not a designer, just because you can draw doesn't makes you a designer. Why didn't Sr have the balls to fire Jr early on?

ghostmonkey · Guru

rumple wrote:
Anybody else notice that Senior didn't even bother denying Vinnie's claim that Senior had ripped him off for backpay? Would you quit working for someone who promised to pay you for your work, then didn't? Why would anybody claim that Vinnie is at fault for doing exactly the same thing they would?

Yep and yep, nothing worse then a boss that doesn't appreciate your hard work.

1Moparsick0 · Senior Member

anotheridiot wrote:
He didnt do any updating, they changed the oil and fixed some wiring.

Thats how lost you guys are in the corporate world. Anything Jason Poole designs at OCC belongs to OCC. Its not his personal ****. Since Jr was employed at OCC during the build and OCC paid all the hours of fabrication to its employees, its an OCC bike. Its the same as removing all Chevrolet Badges from the rivet car and saying paul jr designed the ****ing car.

All these excuses are honestly why our world is in so much trouble. I did it, I own it. Get real.

Cre8 play wanted to be a client. He wanted a motorcycle, jr would not do it, instead he wanted to pretend to be a designer of a dog park that someone else drew too. Who turns down business to build monuments is a person with major issues, you guys follow him like the germans followed hitler.

No... You should use the video camera on your pc or laptop to find the biggest offender of the person that you beieve are lemmings living off the spew that he's been hand feed

You belive honestly that Junior would be nothing without his father, then all the other sons an daughters didn't make themselves productive well-balanced citizens. Nothing was done without Senior. Mikey didn't learn to paint he son didn't learn welding at Boces, Danny didn't revive Seniors bankrupt steel business, Cristin didn't graduate from nursing school.

Izzy Ryder · Senior Member

1Moparsick0 wrote:
anotheridiot wrote:
He didnt do any updating, they changed the oil and fixed some wiring.

Thats how lost you guys are in the corporate world. Anything Jason Poole designs at OCC belongs to OCC. Its not his personal ****. Since Jr was employed at OCC during the build and OCC paid all the hours of fabrication to its employees, its an OCC bike. Its the same as removing all Chevrolet Badges from the rivet car and saying paul jr designed the ****ing car.

All these excuses are honestly why our world is in so much trouble. I did it, I own it. Get real.

Cre8 play wanted to be a client. He wanted a motorcycle, jr would not do it, instead he wanted to pretend to be a designer of a dog park that someone else drew too. Who turns down business to build monuments is a person with major issues, you guys follow him like the germans followed hitler.
No... You should use the video camera on your pc or laptop to find the biggest offender of the person that you beieve are lemmings living off the spew that he's been hand feed

You belive honestly that Junior would be nothing without his father, then all the other sons an daughters didn't make themselves productive well-balanced citizens. Nothing was done without Senior. Mikey didn't learn to paint he son didn't learn welding at Boces, Danny didn't revive Seniors bankrupt steel business, Cristin didn't graduate from nursing school.

Who says Mikey is well balanced and learned how to paint? That's really stretching the facts.

Wasn't that bankruptcy deal just a scam agreed to between Sr and Jr to escape creditors and keep the business in the family? Kind of like the foreclosure at OCC HQ?

Just creative business management.

1Moparsick0 · Senior Member

Funny... But I asked ya to look at yourself before talking bad about a person.

dahammer_57 · Senior Member

anotheridiot wrote:
maybe you havent noticed, but jr has not built a bike over the past 3 or 4 shows. He turned down a bike build for the playground.

- We have no idea what OCC or PJD has or hasn't built this season or when they built it. Pilgrim frequently shows select footage out of sequence for dramatic effect.

anotheridiot wrote:
Its still funny to me how every bike jr ever built is sitting in his shop. I think he has made more on storage than the build with all the one off farmed out machined parts. I think so far its twice as many customer bikes for OCC.

- And OCC doesn't have an entire masoleum full of bikes built for customers and charities alike? It has been discussed on forums over and over how client contracts include clauses about the theme bikes being shown by or even reatained by the shops. It has also been discussed over and over how many charity builds are "bought" by the shops when bike winners cannot pay the associated tax fees . We also know copy bikes are often created for show. How is it "funny" when we know this is standard practice?

Izzy Ryder wrote:
I just visited PaulJrDesigns.com to see all the bikes he has built so far. Can you believe there's no gallery of his bikes on the company's website?
All I could find was clothing and souvenirs. Also a link to Renegade wheels. I guess he's a dealer for them.

anotheridiot wrote:
Yeah he never has.

- Straight from PJD's web site - Full photo galleries and build details of just about everything including PJD Camaro -

http://pauljrdesigns.com/wwww/lifestyle/bikes/index.html

anotheridiot wrote:
And if you really want to split hairs, just because he had nub change the logo on the black widow, it was still an occ bike.

- An artist's work remains their creation regardless of who paid for the clay or canvas. The Sistine Chapel is Michelangelo's vision even though commisioned by the Pope. Jr. was given legal title as part of the settlement - I say let him change the logo if it helps him ease the pain of OCC deniers who claim he played so little a role in their success.

anotheridiot wrote:
Jr is not a designer, he is a sculptor, creator, he cannot put anything down on paper. If anyone would at least agree with that it might not be so sad watching all the lemmings follow him off the cliff.

It was really sad to see jr out of work living in his half million dollar house that OCC paid for. The house was paid for by OCC and stayed with jr. the black widow was paid for by occ and stayed with jr. But nobody sees that. Sr could have thrown him on the street, and most people are treating him like he did.

- I agree 100 percent Jr. is not a traditonal paper and pecil designer or CAD grad who can give you sketch of his vision. His medium has mainly been steel, leather, and rubber - and I don't believe this has ever been denied. What is really sad is when Sr. and his deniers claim his millions are the result of his chopper business genius. He hit the lottery when his son's design's and their weird family chemistry turned AC into a hit. The licensing of the OCC brand at retailers like walmart on everything from coffee cups, tee shirts, and kid's toys etc. etc . comprised the vast majority of his wealth. Most of it from the popular OCC logo sketched - that's right sketched by Jr.

anotheridiot · Guru

1Moparsick0 wrote:
anotheridiot wrote:
He didnt do any updating, they changed the oil and fixed some wiring.

Thats how lost you guys are in the corporate world. Anything Jason Poole designs at OCC belongs to OCC. Its not his personal ****. Since Jr was employed at OCC during the build and OCC paid all the hours of fabrication to its employees, its an OCC bike. Its the same as removing all Chevrolet Badges from the rivet car and saying paul jr designed the ****ing car.

All these excuses are honestly why our world is in so much trouble. I did it, I own it. Get real.

Cre8 play wanted to be a client. He wanted a motorcycle, jr would not do it, instead he wanted to pretend to be a designer of a dog park that someone else drew too. Who turns down business to build monuments is a person with major issues, you guys follow him like the germans followed hitler.
No... You should use the video camera on your pc or laptop to find the biggest offender of the person that you beieve are lemmings living off the spew that he's been hand feed

You belive honestly that Junior would be nothing without his father, then all the other sons an daughters didn't make themselves productive well-balanced citizens. Nothing was done without Senior. Mikey didn't learn to paint he son didn't learn welding at Boces, Danny didn't revive Seniors bankrupt steel business, Cristin didn't graduate from nursing school.

Please dont bring mikey learning to paint. mikey being a goof on the show, not having to hold down a real job and scribble on canvas. People with no talent are called abstract. Learning to paint for the family buisness would have been turning into nub. LEts go out in a parking lot and fling paint at a canvas so we can sell it does not work unless you are known.

This whole family hit the reality show lottery. Jr didnt want to weld fences anymore so they decided to build bikes. He did not go to school like Christian or Jason, he learned on the job, being paid all along. Did he ever hold a job outside of his dads shop that taught him any skills, or was it constantly sr giving him hours, days weeks more time to finish his creations. Where is the payback for everything sr gave? nothing but hearing paulie did it all on his own. You know what I would like to hear from jr, actual acknowledgement that his father had something to do with the path he was put on to become successful. That would show he has some ounce of humanity in him and earn some respect from fathers who have sons in the businessworld.

ghostmonkey · Guru

anotheridiot wrote:
Please dont bring mikey learning to paint. mikey being a goof on the show, not having to hold down a real job and scribble on canvas. People with no talent are called abstract. Learning to paint for the family buisness would have been turning into nub. LEts go out in a parking lot and fling paint at a canvas so we can sell it does not work unless you are known.
This whole family hit the reality show lottery. Jr didnt want to weld fences anymore so they decided to build bikes. He did not go to school like Christian or Jason, he learned on the job, being paid all along. Did he ever hold a job outside of his dads shop that taught him any skills, or was it constantly sr giving him hours, days weeks more time to finish his creations. Where is the payback for everything sr gave? nothing but hearing paulie did it all on his own. You know what I would like to hear from jr, actual acknowledgement that his father had something to do with the path he was put on to become successful. That would show he has some ounce of humanity in him and earn some respect from fathers who have sons in the businessworld.

When has Jr ever said that he did it all on his own? Just try to answer 1 question for a change.

St couldn't design so he had to get Jr.

1Moparsick0 · Senior Member

anotheridiot wrote:
1Moparsick0 wrote:
anotheridiot wrote:
He didnt do any updating, they changed the oil and fixed some wiring.

Thats how lost you guys are in the corporate world. Anything Jason Poole designs at OCC belongs to OCC. Its not his personal ****. Since Jr was employed at OCC during the build and OCC paid all the hours of fabrication to its employees, its an OCC bike. Its the same as removing all Chevrolet Badges from the rivet car and saying paul jr designed the ****ing car.

All these excuses are honestly why our world is in so much trouble. I did it, I own it. Get real.

Cre8 play wanted to be a client. He wanted a motorcycle, jr would not do it, instead he wanted to pretend to be a designer of a dog park that someone else drew too. Who turns down business to build monuments is a person with major issues, you guys follow him like the germans followed hitler.
No... You should use the video camera on your pc or laptop to find the biggest offender of the person that you beieve are lemmings living off the spew that he's been hand feed

You belive honestly that Junior would be nothing without his father, then all the other sons an daughters didn't make themselves productive well-balanced citizens. Nothing was done without Senior. Mikey didn't learn to paint he son didn't learn welding at Boces, Danny didn't revive Seniors bankrupt steel business, Cristin didn't graduate from nursing school.
Please dont bring mikey learning to paint. mikey being a goof on the show, not having to hold down a real job and scribble on canvas. People with no talent are called abstract. Learning to paint for the family buisness would have been turning into nub. LEts go out in a parking lot and fling paint at a canvas so we can sell it does not work unless you are known.
So basically because Mikey's art doesn't fit your definition of art, you deny it is art an he is a artist. Since when does it take going to a professional school to become a artist. His art sells because it is enjoyable by the people that buy it.

Jr didnt want to weld fences anymore so they decided to build bikes. He did not go to school like Christian or Jason, he learned on the job, being paid all along.
Junior went to BOCES while in High School. Check out link http://www.tv.com/people/paul-teutul/biography/
WHEN HIS SON HELPED OUT, AN sENIOR REALIZED jUNIOR CREATIVITY FOR BUIDLING BIKE THE CUSTOMERS WANTED IS WHEN HE PULLED Paulie out for the welding shop to design bikes. Becuase Senior idears of creativuty, well we've seen it an he doesn't have any talent..
Did he ever hold a job outside of his dads shop that taught him any skills, or was it constantly sr giving him hours, days weeks more time to finish his creations. Where is the payback for everything sr gave? nothing but hearing paulie did it all on his own. You know what I would like to hear from jr, actual acknowledgement that his father had something to do with the path he was put on to become successful. That would show he has some ounce of humanity in him and earn some respect from fathers who have sons in the businessworld.

How do you feel that Junior hasn't paid back his father, an since when does a son have to pay back the father for doing what, berating an bullying his son???. BTW i GUESS THAT LAST 5 YEARS HE'S NOT DONE ANYTHING WITH HIS LIFE, for your point I guess not.

anotheridiot · Guru

These multi quotes blow. I did not say what mikey does is not considered art. All I said is if he was not a famous reality show personality, a small percentage of those interested in his art might be interested.

There are two people that developed Jr's fame. His father and Pilgrim. He treats them both the same. I just cannot understand how ANYONE can think that Jr would be where he is today without both of them. For that they deserve some recognition.

Looks its hard to be a father and a boss. Boss usually wins and ruins the father relationship, and thats not with cameras in your face.

dahammer_57 · Senior Member

anotheridiot wrote:
These multi quotes blow.

You post so many statements that those who side with Jr. disagree with that it is necessary to quote you when responding. Thats' what good community forum debates do best. Statement and rebuttal. I may not agree often with your point of view but I love the discussion.

-- Edited by dahammer_57 on Monday 26th of November 2012 04:27:12 PM

jakemac · Senior Member

You could go further back than that. A bike that Jr built for himself in the basement shop had to be sold to keep the business going (Sr didn't make a sacrifice by selling Sunshine, he sold his son's bike instead). That gave them the opportunity to build the Spiderman bike that caught Wyclef Jean's eye, which led to the Black Widow.

True, if Sr hadn't been building bikes in the basement, Jr wouldn't have built the bike that keep the business going. But, at that time, Sr's idea of building a bike was stretching a frame and putting catalog parts on it. Sr couldn't fabricate, that is why he brought his son down to the basement to help him. It was Jr that started fabricating parts, not Sr. Jr started by altering catalog parts, but when the Discovery money started to pour in, he began to fabricate tins from flat sheet and round bar.

It was the arguments that got viewers, but it was the fabrication that created the early fans.

-- Edited by jakemac on Monday 26th of November 2012 05:21:24 PM

-- Edited by jakemac on Monday 26th of November 2012 05:22:31 PM

ghostmonkey · Guru

anotheridiot wrote:
These multi quotes blow. I did not say what mikey does is not considered art. All I said is if he was not a famous reality show personality, a small percentage of those interested in his art might be interested.

There are two people that developed Jr's fame. His father and Pilgrim. He treats them both the same. I just cannot understand how ANYONE can think that Jr would be where he is today without both of them. For that they deserve some recognition.

Looks its hard to be a father and a boss. Boss usually wins and ruins the father relationship, and thats not with cameras in your face.

Why cant you ever answer a question?

anotheridiot · Guru

Did you ask a question or just berate and bully me?

Are you asking if a son needs to repay his father for his multi million dollar net worth? No. If he wanted to split from his father, he should have moved out of the mansion OCC paid for.

Should he acknowledge his father had something to do with his multi million dollar net worth? Yes.

When did Jr ever say he did it all on his own? I guess with the ego of him being the builder whose **** does not stink, claiming the big building would have never happened at OCC if he was not there makes me think he considers himself doing it all his own. I never remember him giving Sr any credit, and would only credit the guys working with him building "his" creations, never his father. His father was always in the way, just there to pay the bills and make the handlebars straight. In all honesty, Sr built the big building for Jr. He was the one who was gonna have the career building that place up with production bikes. Dont you see Sr built that place for jr as much as for himself?

What the hell is BOCES?

You are saying he went to BOCES in high school. Was that before or after his rehab at 16? Is that like the motorcycle school in florida real bike mechanics go to? I went to auto shop in high school too. I dont consider myself chip foose.

ghostmonkey · Guru

anotheridiot wrote:
Did you ask a question or just berate and bully me?

Are you asking if a son needs to repay his father for his multi million dollar net worth? No. If he wanted to split from his father, he should have moved out of the mansion OCC paid for.

Should he acknowledge his father had something to do with his multi million dollar net worth? Yes.

When did Jr ever say he did it all on his own? I guess with the ego of him being the builder whose **** does not stink, claiming the big building would have never happened at OCC if he was not there makes me think he considers himself doing it all his own. I never remember him giving Sr any credit, and would only credit the guys working with him building "his" creations, never his father. His father was always in the way, just there to pay the bills and make the handlebars straight. In all honesty, Sr built the big building for Jr. He was the one who was gonna have the career building that place up with production bikes. Dont you see Sr built that place for jr as much as for himself?

What the hell is BOCES?

You are saying he went to BOCES in high school. Was that before or after his rehab at 16? Is that like the motorcycle school in florida real bike mechanics go to? I went to auto shop in high school too. I dont consider myself chip foose.

Yes I have asked you a few questions about the BS in your posts but you never answer them and just change the subjest. Bully or berate? please are you in highschool?

It's the mansion Discovery paid for. Sr built the WHQ just for his ego. Why else call it the WORLD HEADQUARTERS?

Yep in anger Jr said that this place would go downhill without him. And it wasn't far from the truth. WHQ went to forecolosure and Sr had to get the bank to change the terms of the contract. Look at what Sr had to do by rehabing his image just so he could open up his cafe.

Jr puts on front fender, talk about problems with fitting.
Rick says whats wrong with that?
Jr says it not working man and aint going to work.
Rick says somethings I dont know just lately the past couple of months things are just going farked.
Jr says I'm not the only one noticing things are just not right around here?
Rick things are just farked up, how parts sucks, **** just getting misplaced and not put back, wrong stuff. Shakes his head

jakemac · Senior Member

anotheridiot wrote:
If he wanted to split from his father, he should have moved out of the mansion OCC paid for.

I didn't realize that we were supposed to abandon our houses when we leave a job. My mortgage company didn't point that clause out to me when I sold my soul to them for 30 years.

Reguardless of who Jr's boss/partner was, he spent his money however he chose to. Just like the rest of us. The last time you left a job, did you thank them for all the belongings that they bought you ? Did you return it all to them ?

Now that Sr no longer works for Discovery, should he send them all the cars and motorcycles in his garage ? Perhaps he can tie a bow around the cow's neck, with a great big wet kiss on the lips when he drops it off at the Discovery Headquarters.

That isn't how the world works. OCC doesn't own either of the Teutuls homes. They both profited from the company and the show, and have the right to spend the money how they choose to.

Izzy Ryder · Senior Member

jakemac wrote:
anotheridiot wrote:
If he wanted to split from his father, he should have moved out of the mansion OCC paid for.
The last time you left a job, did you thank them for all the belongings that they bought you ? Did you return it all to them ?

Sure when Jr left his job at OCC he didn't take any equipment with him. Only his toolbox. Although he asked all the equipment sponsors of AC to DONATE the equipment and machines needed to run his own seperate shop. He didn't have the credit or cash to pay for all that stuff. I wonder if he's returning all that equipment and machinery after the show ends.

1Moparsick0 · Senior Member

anotheridiot wrote:
What the hell is BOCES?

You are saying he went to BOCES in high school. Was that before or after his rehab at 16? Is that like the motorcycle school in florida real bike mechanics go to? I went to auto shop in high school too. I dont consider myself chip foose.

Did you check the TV info hyperlink in it's the OC Board Of CoOperative Educational Service (basically vocational-tech). You clearly don't remember in earliest episodes of first season. Cody also was in same program an got work credits for school by working at OCC, or the kids that gave Junior the picture the his disfunctional daddie was to scared to bring, so he enlisted the girl... Ooops I guess you forgot that...

1Moparsick0 · Senior Member

You are mocking Junior for using the same resources that Senior would use to start a business.. So the vendors that supplied all that equipment and fixture, an stero gear,computers, bowling balls, and the plumbing in Senior's garage mahal, at basically cost or for free to get a bike out of OCC... I guess the vendors should take all that stuff back now the the program doesn't support them anymore by using their products....

Izzy Ryder · Senior Member

1Moparsick0 wrote:
You are mocking Junior for using the same resources that Senior would use to start a business.. So the vendors that supplied all that equipment and fixture, an stero gear,computers, bowling balls, and the plumbing in Senior's garage mahal, at basically cost or for free to get a bike out of OCC... I guess the vendors should take all that stuff back now the the program doesn't support them anymore by using their products....

What is this "mocking" that you speak of? In the beginning Sr had to pay out of his pocket for the equipment needed to start a bike shop next to the steel shop. He was his own sponsor at the beginning. What was Jr's financial investment in either business he was involved in?

ghostmonkey · Guru

Izzy Ryder wrote:
1Moparsick0 wrote:
You are mocking Junior for using the same resources that Senior would use to start a business.. So the vendors that supplied all that equipment and fixture, an stero gear,computers, bowling balls, and the plumbing in Senior's garage mahal, at basically cost or for free to get a bike out of OCC... I guess the vendors should take all that stuff back now the the program doesn't support them anymore by using their products....
What is this "mocking" that you speak of? In the beginning Sr had to pay out of his pocket for the equipment needed to start a bike shop next to the steel shop. He was his own sponsor at the beginning. What was Jr's financial investment in either business he was involved in?

Didn't Sr get a lot of equitment given to him?

anotheridiot · Guru

dahammer_57 wrote:
anotheridiot wrote:
These multi quotes blow.
You post so many statements that are patently false it is necessary to quote you when responding with the facts. Thats' what good community forum debates do best. Point and rebuttal. I may not agree often with your point of view but I love the discussion.

Right, but usually they software for the forums have the ability to put the name of the person that wrote the dribble right above the words they wrote, not all at the top after the separation.

What both of these goofs got from the fame of discovery is no way tied to what an employer "owes" an employee. My biggest military customer just fired all their engineers....designers, and are now implementing production on all the prototypes they created. They dont get anything for what they created. But a father son business using company funds to buy houses, cars, bikes, barns, property is way different than getting extra in your paycheck to buy your own stuff.

As far as the OCC foreclosure BS, thats business in this **** economy. OCC was not the only company that did that. Junior being there or not had nothing to do with the foreclosure, it was gonna happen regardless. The banks know they cannot lease that building to anyone and easily work out a better deal to keep money coming in. Sr would have been more stupid not to go thru it and had a tv show to make the bank believe he was gonna use his own cash to put up another building on his property for OCC.

I'm sorry if it just seems I hate jr. I hate all pity whores. Look what daddy did to me.... boo hoo, look what you got and be thankful for it, but dont forget where it all came from. Jr would be nothing without his father and it hurts him to admit it.

1Moparsick0 · Senior Member

Without the notoriety that Paul Jr's bike Senior would be nothing but bankrupt. It was Paulie designing the Black Widow that got the 150k Racecar bike. Otherwise it would never have happened..

dahammer_57 · Senior Member

Agreed members use of quote function (myself included)leaves room for improvement.

As far as the debate over who owes who respect/thanks I feel the extent of Jr.'s thanks are limited to events prior to AC. -"Thanks Dad for the job at ironworks and the startup bikeshop. I appreciate it." - I don't doubt this level of thanks has been shown between them over the years. I also don't doubt Jr.'s compensation for these early jobs was in line with the work he performed. However I feel the situation shifted after AC became the hit it did. They were no longer employer - employee but costars on a comedy/drama that allowed them to whore out the OCC brand for untold millions. Sr. then became the one who owed a debt of gratitude and respect to Jr. - "Thanks Son for submitting our humble little bikeshop for show consideration and thanks for coming up with these cool theme bike designs people seem to love. Oh and by the way since we are now worth 10 times what we ever would have been without the show, here is 50 percent ownership in the shop and a plan for you to succeed me when I retire. I appreciate you." - No, instead we saw Sr. grow increasingly resentful and abusive for the attention and good vibes coming Jr.'s way and more vocally insistent it was all me, me, me.

As for the company funds being used to buy houses, cars, bikes, barns, property when has that been stated? They owned the company, they can pay themselves whatever salary they see fit as long as it doesn't violate the law cheating creditors/company debt. As far as we know, all personal purchases were made legitimately with salary and show income.

As for the forclosure I agree. Although it furthered my image of Sr. as sleazy it what most icorporated businesses would do in the situation.

Don't fear your inner Jr. hate. We need both sides of the coin if we want anything to talk about.

anotheridiot · Guru

anotheridiot wrote:
Jr would be nothing without his father and it hurts him to admit it.
SilentBob wrote:
So you are saying Sr. would be right where he is today if they had started with Sr. and Mikey?
____________________________________________________________________________
It looks like if you cut and paste quotes it might be easier to follow.
No Sr would not be right where he is today without Jr, but as far as him being bankrupt, I highly doubt that. He would have never dreamed so big for his son to build the mega 90,000 square foot facility and would be in a shop about 20,000 square feet or about twice the size of PJD if he had all the machines and would basically work in the bike area we see on the show.
Dont forget he was fighting with the other son at Iron works and still funnelled them the job.
All I am saying is he gets pissed off because he set his sons on the path they have become very wealthy at and none of them have any appreciation for it.

-- Edited by anotheridiot on Tuesday 27th of November 2012 04:46:15 AM

-- Edited by anotheridiot on Tuesday 27th of November 2012 04:46:52 AM