The Original American Chopper Fan Forum, and the new, and Original Orange County Choppers on CMT Fan Forum

PAMD · Veteran Member

Where will the employees of both shops go after their workload dries up??

Izzy Ryder · Senior Member

PAMD wrote:
Rick, Rick Petko Designs?? Vinnie and Cody, back to V-Force Customs?? Brendon Thompson seems to already have his plan mapped: http://www.elitemetaldesigns.com/emd_theatre_main.html Mike Ammirati, your local muffler shop?? Steve Moreau, back to 1-800 Mattress (leave off the last "s" for savings) Ron Saulsbury, ??
Christian and Nick should have no problems finding employment.

Someone in the old forum mentioned Steve Moreau was a truck driver before working for OCC. Maybe he delivered mattresses.

PAMD · Veteran Member

From OCC's Website: (1-800 Mattress)

rumple · Veteran Member

I think PJD is just getting going. I doubt Junior will get his own TV show, but he won't need it. He's diversified quite a bit already, and there's no end in sight.

What I am interested in is what will Senior's apologists do now, without having him in their living room every week, reminding them of how dear ol' dad said "I love you" with a slap across the face and a kick to ma's backside in passing, just for good measure.

AnitaLaLouise · Senior Member

Jr will need a TV show, and he seems to realize that. Otherwise why beg his fans to help him get one?

None of his non-theme bike designs have been well received. Without a TV show who would pay $400,000 for one of his bikes? Plus his overhead has never been higher - two houses, two shops.

Renegade · Senior Member

Mcdonalds working for Odie :)

Izzy Ryder · Senior Member

AnitaLaLouise wrote:
Jr will need a TV show, and he seems to realize that. Otherwise why beg his fans to help him get one?.............

Twitter and Facebook are much cheaper than having to pay your own production company to create commercials for you.

anotheridiot · Guru

rumple wrote:
I think PJD is just getting going. I doubt Junior will get his own TV show, but he won't need it. He's diversified quite a bit already, and there's no end in sight.

What I am interested in is what will Senior's apologists do now, without having him in their living room every week, reminding them of how dear ol' dad said "I love you" with a slap across the face and a kick to ma's backside in passing, just for good measure.

This is how this generation seems to be. Play xbox 23 hours a day, no exercise, living in moms basement. If Jr got a few more kicks in the ass before this show ruined him he might have become a man 15 years ago when he was that age.

The guys at pjcreations will tire and leave quicker than OCC's guys leave. They want to build bikes away from OCC, and that is not the course their leader is taking, he is out to paste his name on anything possible and I really doubt any of these guys want to end up sewing patches on jackets in Rachaels boutique.

ghostmonkey · Guru

anotheridiot wrote:
This is how this generation seems to be. Play xbox 23 hours a day, no exercise, living in moms basement. If Jr got a few more kicks in the ass before this show ruined him he might have become a man 15 years ago when he was that age.
The guys at pjcreations will tire and leave quicker than OCC's guys leave. They want to build bikes away from OCC, and that is not the course their leader is taking, he is out to paste his name on anything possible and I really doubt any of these guys want to end up sewing patches on jackets in Rachaels boutique.

Jr has been working since he was 12 and he was made a supervisor by 16 because of his work ethic.

So the OCC guys will be flipping burgers longer then the PJD guys will be sewing patches on jackets? OK

PAMD · Veteran Member

Izzy, this is the most accurate of any statements on this site: "... The hardest working person at PJD is the UPS man ....."

And now to the news...... (start 1960's news ticker now)

A good friend who is the head of engineering for a large cable television provider stopped by to barter for a radio which I am selling. Cable providers sell up to four minutes of commercial advertising per hour, and their ad rated are based on a formula which takes ratings into account. From what info he's been able to learn, A/C has been on the chopping block for a while now, as the show is "encountering a period of declining ad revenues", and apparently "high costs of production for a reality series". It is damn near impossible to sell local commercials in my area, because of the large population of "people who take their religion seriously", and motorcycles of any type are not popular amongst this particular population. Discovery Networks position to negotiate higher cable rates has suffered because of some "unpopular programming choices".

...and now to the BIGGER news....

This same friend told me that sometime next year, expect to see two of the principal characters from American Chopper "on one of the weekend Motorhead Shows"...

His information has been fairly accurate in the past, only time will tell, and I wonder which two??

ghostmonkey · Guru

Thanks for the info PAMD, very interesting. Cant wait to see who.

jakemac · Senior Member

Lee and Odie !!?

ghostmonkey · Guru

Dam I was hoping Jason and Steve.

1Moparsick0 · Senior Member

Wonder what the possiblity of the Shows actors free-lancing a product an PJD is putting itself in a position to produce an market it themselves.... Ahhh!!! PJD purchases a Video production studio to take Piligrim studios out of the picture, so then he controls even more of a shows makeup. An poor Senior Banking on his past image while Jr is working on staying on top of things.

PJD Superteam powers ACTIVATE!!

-- Edited by 1Moparsick0 on Thursday 22nd of November 2012 02:29:58 PM

rumple · Veteran Member

anotheridiot wrote:
rumple wrote:
I think PJD is just getting going. I doubt Junior will get his own TV show, but he won't need it. He's diversified quite a bit already, and there's no end in sight.

What I am interested in is what will Senior's apologists do now, without having him in their living room every week, reminding them of how dear ol' dad said "I love you" with a slap across the face and a kick to ma's backside in passing, just for good measure.
This is how this generation seems to be. Play xbox 23 hours a day, no exercise, living in moms basement. If Jr got a few more kicks in the ass before this show ruined him he might have become a man 15 years ago when he was that age.
The guys at pjcreations will tire and leave quicker than OCC's guys leave. They want to build bikes away from OCC, and that is not the course their leader is taking, he is out to paste his name on anything possible and I really doubt any of these guys want to end up sewing patches on jackets in Rachaels boutique.

Asked, and answered.

Izzy Ryder · Senior Member

Make no mistake. Whatever path Jr decides to take after AC, it will be "INNOVATIVE" and "ICONIC"..... and he'll "knock it out of the ballpark".

dahammer_57 · Senior Member

Who knows what the future holds but my guess would be the OCC mausoleum and burger joint will collapse on itself within 6 to 12 months without show driven interest. With senior being 63 years old I can't see him sticking around long to watch his empire crumble. Jr.'s shop will most likely close even sooner as this business model requires the show for survival. The new commercial production studio is an unknown but I highly doubt itsurvives more than a few months. Who knows if any of our favorite characters will turn up on a new reality series. With DB Jessie getting another shot aythings possible. Even Little People Big World is getting another shot at reality TV.

SherryRichard · Senior Member

Next year is going to bring some BIG changes to our world. There have been too many people coming out of college and living in their parent's basements instead of going to work!!! They and their parents really haven't been watching what has been going on.

ObamaCare is going to ruin many middle size companies; like those with 50 employees or more. Many of these employees are going to see their work hours go from full time to part time at 28 hours a week. And they are the lucky ones... A good many of these middle size companies will close their doors. The taxes are going up and as I said the ObamaCare tax will finish them off.

I've watched two big businesses that were my clients go down. And they didn't have near the number of employees but California decided that since the federal government was charging 6.2% for FICA then California decided to up their unemployment insurance from 4.2% to 6.2% and that did them in. Two percent might not sound like so much but it is when people are using their types of services or purchasing products because they are being laid off or their income has been reduced.

Right now motorcycles are popular out here in California. We have lots of ground to cover out here and it's costing a lot to drive. If the motorcycles can keep the environmentalists from getting mad at them, they don't cost as much to run and they are small. What Nato really wants us all to embrace is bicycles. Have you heard all the talk about bicycle paths?

PAMD · Senior Member

My daughter, a "professional student", had begged me to attend Christmas dinner at her mother's, and my former home. She completed a residency in Neuro-Psychiatry this past August, and has been a student at an area Law school for the last three years. In February, she will complete her course requirements, obtain her J.D., then sometime in March, sit for the Bar Exams in Delaware, which has reciprocity with Pennsylvania. Her main intention for the meeting was to tell us that she has become involved in something called "the Public Interest Law Alliance", and will be leaving for Ireland by early June. She will have the "unencumbered ability to practice medicine, and supplement her interests in Law". Here, her malpractice insurance alone costs in excess of $45,000.00 annually, and she felt "zero stability in her future in the United States".

I'm certain that she's not the only one exiting for similar reasons...

SherryRichard · Senior Member

I'm sure she isn't the only one exiting the US either. The people the administration claims it's going after has the finances to do what is necessary to keep the government's mitts off of what is theirs. The Kennedy's use trust funds as well as other legislators. They can hide their money or they can flat out leave the country if it comes to that. They have the money to do those kinds of things... That French actor who is probably in his 60's but is considered an action figure type in France; and one of their most popular actors, just moved to Belgum or a country near there. He isn't going to pay 75% taxes. Talk about turn things upside down, the government spokespeople are calling him unpatriotic!!!! Can you imagine people using words like that because a man who works for his money won't turn over the majority of it to the government!!!! They must have listen to our legislators for too long because they have the audacity to think what is yours is theirs...

In watching how Obama works he castigates the people he will benefit while ruining the people he claims he wants to help!!! For instance Wall Street and the "banks too big to fail" were the ones to blasted but they were the ones who were given all that money. He praised green energy and laundered money through them and in the end they went bankrupt. I actually think that was a flat out con game (among other things) and if we did something like that we'd be in jail but our government gets away with it. And that tells you how far down the tube we have gone. People just shrug and go their way.... There was a time when people would have been demanding action on the people purpetrating such a thing. Look at Nixon he tried to stonewall his bad deeds but wasn't allowed to get away with it.

You mark my words. In the end the middle class will be straped again... And I don't think they are going to be able to survive it. Has anybody noticed the increases in the things you buy at the store? It's going to get worse. I've watched it happen too many times.

Maribegood · Senior Member

PAMD, how will she have the unencumbered ability to practice medicine in Ireland? Ireland's medical services delivery system is socialized, both in the Republic and in Northern Ireland. Doctors get what the government pays them. She could do boutique practice work, but not a lot of people pay are willing to jump the lines because it means meoney out of their own pockets.

Maribegood · Senior Member

Coming out of the closet here as an Obama supporter based strictly on Obamacare. I have two friends with MS, one friend with Lupus. Young women in the workforce. If they were ever laid off their jobs, they can now pay for an individual policy. One of these women was without insurance almost a year and is still paying off medical bills. That was when she was between jobs. When the autoimmune disease, or cancer, or the pre term baby come, you aren't in a position to shop around for the best deal. If you had bum kidneys but were not yet on dialysis, you needed to pray you would not lose your job, because you would lose your insurance. Now companies cannot out and out refuse to cover you for an individual policy because you come in with problems. You can forget Medicaid, you have to be living BELOW federal poverty in most states to qualify. The death panels are so much bs. If anything, we really have to take a look at the ethics of keeping 88 year olds intubated for 3-5 years in a bed before they finally die. There is far too much money being spent at the end of life that neither improves quality or function. We can argue whether intubated and in bed qualifies as "life extending". It's disgraceful for people to lose their houses because their kid got cancer and the bills piled up.

If you have insurance, I guarantee that their are non medical people making decisions about your care, from having your doctor secure the non medical person's permission to put you in the hospital for surgery to having to justify every day of the stay as it happens.

You may commence the tomato throwing. evileye

-- Edited by Maribegood on Monday 31st of December 2012 01:51:08 PM

PAMD · Senior Member

They're relieved from the burdens of malpractice claims, with the exception of either, (or both), gross malpractice, and negligent malpractice. She'll receive a salary based on a formula that takes into account her hours of availability, the number of patients seen, and the complexity of service. There will only be one layer of billing necessary, and that can be accomplished through simple accounting. Another plus is that their charts stay resident in one system which is administered by an organization set up exclusive of the government, as a layer of protection of confidentiality.

She had resigned herself to the fact that physicians don't get rich anymore, unless they open "mega, assembly line styled" practices, or made their money prior to earlier in this century, and judging by what comes out of her mouth "nowadays", money never was her driving force. She desires fame, to some extent. When she did both her pre-med and Med training at Pitt, one of her adjunct professors was Dr. Cyril Wecht, the forensic pathologist often seen on television. I believe that it was through one of her lectures that she was convinced to combine medicine with another career, like the legal profession, which would allow the ability for her to "write her own ticket" in life.

When you combine the above with the fact that she's spent two entire summers with relatives, who own a farm near Cork, Ireland, and the perceived dysfunctional state of affairs here (not that Ireland is a bastion of stability), I see the method in her madness. Whether it will prove to be a "grass is greener" scenario is yet to be seen, but the fact that virtually all who've trained for professional careers feel that their prospects are less than stellar here, does not bode well for our collective futures.

I still don't see her reasoning behind the motives of a more enriched legal career on the Emerald Isle, however, my main concern is that she's happy in life, and if this move allows prospects no longer accessible here, so be it.

rumple · Senior Member

Topic: "Where will the employees of both shops go after their workload dries up??"

I'm guessing from where the topic has veered that some people are of the opinion that the employees of both shops will go to:

1.: Ireland.

2: To hell in a handbasket.

Did I call that right?

SherryRichard · Senior Member

rumple, great summation! I wish the the captains (and their lieutenants) had your skill when I was having to review incident reports before giving them to my boss for his signature. The synopsis required a very short summary and I wouldn't have had to send every report back!!! Ah the days when I couldn't make mistakes! It does still bother me that after I proof something and send it I will find mistakes. That's because I don't have the time to wait before I proof it and see it with fresh eyes.

Several of my grandchildren are going into the medical profession and my two daughters who have been RN's for many years are doing really good. However, they know they stand on the edge of a precipice and may have to make moves or changes. One granddaughter is studying psychology. My daughter who is now a medical insurance broker is planning to go back to school to do something with psychology. She knows that she needs to do something different because in the end we will all be on one medical plan. You know politicians have never had good reputations but they are worse now than I have ever seen them. They don't even know how to tell the truth or are honorable enough to hold to a pledge they make. It makes for a very unsettling world.

My mother and her friends did not believe in using Medicare at all. They all paid cash to their doctor and my mother used a medical insurance plan she got through AARP to get some of her money back. She told me by paying cash they were able to get the treatment THEY wanted. Although AARP totally sold out the seniors by backing ObamaCare my Mom never had any problems with them because she died before ObamaCare was introduced. But she died at almost 91 years old; and she would have lived longer if she had not gotten into an car accident in her early 60's. She had complications from this accident that the doctors didn't think she would survive; but survive she did. And she was very active until the last 3 months of her life.

Frankly the individual is most aware of their circumstances and what is best for them; and there are many people with different circumstances. It is insane to believe that you can bundle everybody's medical needs into graphs where some non-medical people can make life or death decisions for you. And that is exactly what they are doing. If you keep abreast of the news, you can see what messes the government makes of things and they are demanding for us to give over these life and death decisions to them. But people keep voting bad people in to make decisions for them. A good example is Detroit! The town that was at the pennacle of the auto industry is now looking like a city in a third world country. They even have vegetation that is overgrowing structures! I heard someone say that the mayor or governor threatened to reduce the size of Detroit because a good percentage of it was inhabitable! They also said they won't do it because it would reduce the amount of votes they get.

They couldn't even come up with a bill (I call it ObamaCare) that don't have all kinds of pork for all of these so called Congress people. They are going to tax people at every turn. You won't be able to buy medical equipment without paying more tax on it. They have even put a tax in this bill that you will have to pay something like 3+ percent of the amount homeowners get for the sale of their homes. And at the amount homes are going for that can be a really large amont!

1Moparsick0 · Guru

dahammer_57 wrote:
Who knows what the future holds but my guess would be the OCC mausoleum and burger joint will collapse on itself within 6 to 12 months without show driven interest. With senior being 63 years old I can't see him sticking around long to watch his empire crumble. Jr.'s shop will most likely close even sooner as this business model requires the show for survival. The new commercial production studio is an unknown but I highly doubt itsurvives more than a few months. Who knows if any of our favorite characters will turn up on a new reality series. With DB Jessie getting another shot aythings possible. Even Little People Big World is getting another shot at reality TV.

My feeling is that they will return to what they formerally did, working the curcuit of Motorcycle events. Didn't they start with building a unique themed choppers for Javits center or Laconia. I know Javits is the B/W homecoming event. An Laconia was Jet bikes, but got cancelled out, all I remeber is that she was unvieled on the Carrier in N.Y. Mikey will have his painting, an Senior can go back to building for the love of a cool bike instead of having poolie cobble Scrap together with all his whiz bang technology an shovel ot a bike the looks like fecal material... Jason I wold love it if he had to go bac to Iowa will his tail bettween his legs..

anotheridiot · Guru

Maribegood wrote:
Coming out of the closet here as an Obama supporter based strictly on Obamacare. I have two friends with MS, one friend with Lupus. Young women in the workforce. If they were ever laid off their jobs, they can now pay for an individual policy. One of these women was without insurance almost a year and is still paying off medical bills. That was when she was between jobs. When the autoimmune disease, or cancer, or the pre term baby come, you aren't in a position to shop around for the best deal. If you had bum kidneys but were not yet on dialysis, you needed to pray you would not lose your job, because you would lose your insurance. Now companies cannot out and out refuse to cover you for an individual policy because you come in with problems. You can forget Medicaid, you have to be living BELOW federal poverty in most states to qualify. The death panels are so much bs. If anything, we really have to take a look at the ethics of keeping 88 year olds intubated for 3-5 years in a bed before they finally die. There is far too much money being spent at the end of life that neither improves quality or function. We can argue whether intubated and in bed qualifies as "life extending". It's disgraceful for people to lose their houses because their kid got cancer and the bills piled up.

If you have insurance, I guarantee that their are non medical people making decisions about your care, from having your doctor secure the non medical person's permission to put you in the hospital for surgery to having to justify every day of the stay as it happens.

You may commence the tomato throwing.

-- Edited by Maribegood on Monday 31st of December 2012 01:51:08 PM

But there were states you could go to and be covered. I knew a driver for a company that had 4 heart attacks. He moved to georgia and was covered by the state. Romney had care in his home state, Illinois has a real good child wellness program, its too big of a problem for the federal government to handle, with so many states having good medical care for its citizens, it could be better being run by the state.

as far as death panels, there are plenty of elderly in homes that dont want to be kept alive. they are tired and as long as medicare is gonna pay for the three tests a month and medication, the homes are keeping them going against their wishes. Was Dr Kevorkian right? I know at least 5 elderly people who right now would rather it be over. Their spouses are dead and they have nothing left to live for. They are being kept alive with medicare funded programs.

You hear commercials for generic pills. viagra for 99.00. If the doc prescribed them to you and you went thru insurance, it would cost 700.00. Obamacare, I dont know, its just too much. You remove lobbyists from the political scene and they might do some amazing ****. All I see now is representatives voting for something that has some kick backs to their lobbyists for their vote that makes a simple law into a 3200 page report.

jakemac · Senior Member

anotheridiot wrote:
Romney had care in his home state

No, he didn't.

That care was only for those who were already in the welfare system. The rest of us are required to pay for a health plan, or loose our tax returns and pay a fine. Before RomneyCare, the weekly payment for my health plan was $35. After RomneyCare, my payment went to $50, and then $95 before I cancelled it. One quarter of my paycheck was going towards a health plan that I never make use of. It's cheaper for me to be a criminal and treat myself when sick.

We were promised that health costs would go down, instead, they tripled. The Insurance Companies are the only ones making money on the deal, and finding a doctor that will take on new patients is nearly impossible in a state that has more doctors per capita that any other in the Union.

The Romney/Obama plan does absolutely nothing to control health costs. Instead, it puts more money in the hands of the Insurance and Pharmaceutical Companies, while giving no malpractice relief to the Doctors and a more complicated/less responsive Healthcare system to the rest of us.

Bottom line, you don't control health costs by putting a greater financial burden on the patients. You control costs by regulating Free Enterprise. A little blue pill should cost the same in the US as it does in Canada, or Mexico, because it came from the same factory.

As soon as our Politicians loose their 'entitled' taxpayer funded health plan, and are required to play by the same rules as the rest of us, then you will see some real answers to the problem.

Maribegood · Senior Member

The program you are talking about in Georgia is called "Peachcare". You must be a resident of Georgia for at least 2 years before you are able to qualify, and once again you must live several orders below federal poverty to qualify. I don't think anyone born and breed in the Northeast is going to purposely ditch their marketable skills, sell their condo, and move to Georgia so they can be poor enough to qualify for Peachcare. I suspect your driver did some sort of "shell game" with any property he own to be poorer than he appears. I don't blame the man, when you need care and can't get it, you do desperate things. What about the man who wants to work for his daily bread in Georgia and still has trouble making insurance premium payments?

The insurance companies are probably going to need to get muscled out completely, and we will eventually (10-20 years) transition to a single payer system, possible state by state. My advice to anyone, including myself, to not get stuck in the nursing home bed-have a durable medical power of attorney, a health care proxy, and make sure you get a DNR order signed for hosptializations when you have reached 75. It will allow someone to act on your behalf to say, NO! No feeding tube, no ventilator, no surgeries to amputate the foot off a 90 year old diabetic with demetia (just went to that funeral). We were able to stop my 92 year old grandmother with Alzeimers from getting a feeding tube when she stopped eating. The trick is to give the power to someone in your family who will be able to look at those situations with a COLD, clear, eye. Your most rational child, a no nonsense sibling, or even an ex-spouse if you are on civil terms. The ones that let their love for you cloud their judgement of a situation are not appropriate.

-- Edited by Maribegood on Tuesday 1st of January 2013 01:18:46 AM

anotheridiot · Guru

sorry, I thought his plan was the plan in his state, which is a failure I guess.

yes, their health plan, their pensions, their retirements, its the simple answer that nobody will answer because they (all of them) will not vote for it. Before the stock market fell all of them pulled their money out of the market, not just the republicans, the democrats too.

I am not close, nor know anyone that is that top 5%, but the solution is simple, let the bush cuts expire for all ceo's of companies that do not produce anything in the united states. allow them to continue for the reason they were put in to begin with, those top companies should get a tax cut to continue investing their money into the economy. they stuff it in their mattresses and wait til its worth their effort to put their money out there again. Those are the companies that should be driving our economy, not oil companies that are importing everything or manufacturers that just bring in parts. Everyone loves the foreign car companies assembling cars here, but bottom line is there are 11 jobs for each man on the assembly line, be it machinists for pistons and crankshafts, foundries to pour the parts, to the buttons on the radio. Those are the 11 jobs we need back, not allowing them to bring parts in with no tariffs because they are just parts and not entire cars like the tariff that gets added to mercedes and porsche bringing in ready to drive cars. The answer is there, we just needed change to be made as promised when Obama had majority of house and senate when elected. They still would not let anything get done. Now he ran again saying it cant be changed from washington so we go following him off the cliff. Guess lemmings is a proper term now.

PAMD · Senior Member

RE: Ceclor: One of the most over-prescribed, yet ineffective antibiotics there ever was. Lilly marketed the hell out of it, and included a proprietary step in the manufacture of it's "technical" generic, Cefaclor, which made it a very difficult to manufacture item in the broader market. When my kids required an antibiotic, I'd usually tell the M.D. that I'd prefer that sulfamethoxazole, amoxicillin, penicillin, or erythromycin be dispensed. Once they turned 14, I threw tetracyclines into the mix.

Ceclor is still a poor choice, and why it is consider a "first line treatment for more severe upper respiratory infections" is beyond me.

Another antibiotic on the "hit parade of ineffective medications", is Duricef, (Cefadroxil). I'd have reps from Dista, it's (brand) manufacturer, drop literal grocery bags filled with the stuff at the front desk; which my supervisory nurse would always trade off to other physicians in the building, in exchange for items we could use. I've never written for it.

If you can safely take sulfa drugs, and your physician/practitioner believes that their usage is justified, then try them. They are extremely effective at eradicating infections, even the nasties. Their one detracting factor is Stevens-Johnson Syndrome, which "ain't" nothing to fool with, and can be life threatening.

BTW, feel free to ask away. Short of making complex diagnoses, or rendering care via the internet, I'll try and help. There's much that I am unfamiliar with.

-- Edited by PAMD on Tuesday 1st of January 2013 11:14:57 AM

PAMD · Senior Member

I posted a tirade over at the other forum, which addressed all of the above, so I'll spare all of you from the normal rant. What we need desperately in this country, is the ability for physicians to render simple treatments without having to perform "defensive medicine", a.k.a. "labs ad-infinitum; referrals for simple procedures which could be accomplished by most second-year med school students; allow the physician to dispense generic meds directly from their office, as was done until the late '70s; and finally, allow the physician to keep minimal records of treatments for simple procedures/visits - with NO insurance involvement, and a maximum fee to the patient of $40.00". We need to return to a form of medicine where we took care of people, not cases, "Emmie, can you prep that cysto in treatment room 2?" crept from my lips more than once, when, in fact, I should have said "Mr. Kornwell is going to need a cystoscopy today, when you have a moment, would you please prep him, he is in room #2?".

We need a multi-tiered system, as follows.

Pharmacies would be allowed to maintain a PA or CRNP to administer immediate care for "boo boos", head colds, simple infections, and the like, on a fee for service basis, with no insurance involvement. Minimal record keeping would be a prerequisite, and failed treatments would require immediate physician referral. Pharmacists would be allowed to prescribe certain, pre-determined medications without having to carry excessive malpractice coverage, and would be immune from all but the most heinous malpractice lawsuits.

Indigent patients with simple needs receive care provided from a fund which reimburses the physician $30.00 per visit, with only very simple billing necessary.

Those who can afford, pay the "fee per visit" of $40.00, which includes up to ten minutes with the physician, and physician dispensed (reasonably priced) generic medications. Maintenance medications would be dispensed by pharmacies.

Broaden the scope of practice of pharmacists to allow for the dispensing of medications, including pain meds (up to Schedule CIV, and no more than a 5-day supply, with no refills). Certain cold remedies, flu treatments, BP medications, dermatologicals, and minor sleep disturbances could also be treated in this fashion. A minimal amount of record keeping would be in play

The above referenced steps would reduce ER visits by at least 60%, saving billions in unnecessary insurance disbursement.

Patients requiring more complex medical intervention would then have an insurance policy covering major medical procedures and testing, with a responsible amount of supportive documentation and laboratory referrals, and specialist referrals. At this time, a system similar to our current system, would activate.

Will some fall through the cracks??, surely! Is this system perfect??, nope, but it's workable, unlike Obamacare, which is so complex that it will be prone to errors and omissions of care.

Remember, the more complex a system, or device, the more prone to error it becomes.

rumple · Senior Member

That's the most concise, brilliant dissertation I've ever read on the subject. I'm going to put the salient points on a post-it (so I'll remember them - K.I.S.S.) and brand them on my cerebral cortex to trot out in any discussion of the subject.

Of course, I'll pretend it was all my ideas, borne of long nights of careful research. You know how it is with us pedants. And when foreign heads of State and bureaucrats inevitably beat a path to my door to consult and hear me drone on for days, I'll pretend to be humble and silently waft an air-biscuit of gratitude your way.

Fox News, here I come.

anotheridiot · Guru

all great points, we used to constantly get samples from the kids doctors, he knew we were struggling and couldnt afford the medication if he prescribed it, but eventually we learned that he would always try to prescribe those same meds that might not have worked when the kids got older. turned out he got enough free samples because he decided to prescribe the full price bottles as much as he could. Main one was ceclor over ammoxicillan. No matter what the ceclor never worked but we would end up with 5 days of no relief and an eventual ammoxicillan prescription each time. Whenever he tried to give us ceclor we even refused the samples, its not worth not paying the 20.00 to watch the kids suffer waiting for the antibiotics to work.

The thing is though, if the pharmaceutical companies were not paying lobbyists hundreds of millions of dollars a year to buy votes, the price of medication would come down anyway.

as far as my buddy that went to georgia, poverty level was based on his ability to work, and his condition kept him from heavy labor and he had enough saved up from his job here in IL that he was able to buy a house and didnt need to work, so his income was basically poverty.

Second guy wrenched his back lifting a part, went thru four surgeries, eventually removing discs and adding titanium hardware to his back, got addicted to pain medications after the surgeries, went 5 years of surgery, no relief, pain meds, rehab, another surgery, etc until the workmans comp ran out when he took a settlement and moved there. again no income. I am not saying its a way around laws and waiting the time frame you need to before you get covered, I am saying that some states have a plan that works.

Maribegood · Senior Member

*raises her hand* Microbiologist here. Industrial microbiologist, so my focus is the cleanrooms that make the drugs, don't deal in clinical samples. I say Amen and Amen to your tirade on Ceclor. I have belonged to the American Society for Microbiology for 20 years, and the overuse and abuse of powerful antibiotics in both human and veterinary use is a crusade of mine. anotheridiot, you guys did right. NEVER let them throw Ceclor at your kid unless the infection has been cultured and it's the only one that works. Even when it isn't getting the kid better, it is putting genetic pressure on the body's bacteria that can cause resistance. As far as I knew the companies were dialing back a lot of the free samples since the FDA considered it pressuring or bribing the physician to write for the drug.

The Peachcare program sounds well run, but it still means you have to have a federal poverty income and wait. There are too many people who make above poverty income but are still unisured, and those gaps need to close. In my state, a standard policy that does not cover perscriptions outside a hospital setting or medical equipment is going to run about 300 dollars a month per individual. Doable if your single with a stable job and pay your perscriptions out of pocket, not so much with a family. If you have heart disease, asthma, or some type of autoimmune and you need medicine to stay stable, well then you have a problem again if your meds are upwards of 500-1000 dollars a month. I see PAMD's points and like a lot of them, especially on the preventive care, but are doctors who are a quarter of a million dollars in the hole when they get out of med school going to be able to make their loan payments on 40 dollars a patient? I honestly have no idea if it is doable, I'm asking for real.

BTW, if you want to know why drugs cost so much, forget the advertising. I've been on the ground floor of the developing end. We do things that add millions to the final cost that satisfy the FDA and have an absolute 0 value added cost in terms of health and safety. The advertising comes in because those millions have to be made back before the patent expires and the generics can make them.

SherryRichard · Senior Member

There is a good reason for a 2 year residency period to get on a program paid by taxpayers. It's not a secret that California is on the brink of bankruptsy. If you are poor in California, you are put on MediCAL. If you have kids, you are also put on Welfare. People who are on the lower rung of the middle class are the ones that are not helped. They needed to deal with these people and people with prior illnesses; however, the government saw the chance to further control people so they wrote this 1000 page document full of pork that nobody read!!!!

When the state started to see what it costs for all that they tried to establish a residency period was established and they were subsequently taken to court and told them they couldn't do that. People don't seem to realize that once established; welfare is there to stay. We probably would have been alright if this program had been for just California residents but people saw what Cali was offering and came in droves and soon afterward they started coming in droves over the border! I will say that businesses and residents are leaving now in droves which will will not be sustainable but it is a consequence of over taxing.

I think I mentioned on the other board (I can't keep track with another group I'm in) about how it was before the invention of medical insurance. You know medical insurance hasn't been around all that long! I remember taking my own kids to the doctor and paying cash. The expense was minimal compared to today's. And then they started controlling more and more drugs. During my lifetime they have done away or controlled so many illnesses and diseases. Up until recently a person could expect that a cure could be found for the serious, deadly and killing things in the world. What they are proposing will make that something that will never be again.

If you really look at ObamaCare or RomneyCare, you can see that people who were trying to get something for theirself who made up the bill. Having worked for the government all those years I know darn good and well they are the last ones I would want to count on. Most people probably don't even realize that if they find out someone caused a really bad problem the government believes that if everybody writes a report and makes suggestions for correction; or not, that is all that is required of them.

I'll give you an example. I received an incident report for my boss to sign so that it would be send to our headquarters. Some of these incident reports ended up in court or were read by the legislature so I didn't give anything to my boss that was not ready to sign. It was called "completed case work." Well the correctional officer stated he saw an inmate coming quickly toward him and he knew she was going to attack him; so he socked her in the face. I almost fell off my chair. The lieutenant was supposed to write the cover letter which among things summarized the incident. Many lieutenants had their sergeants put the incident report together and write the cover letter.

It was obvious that the reports was thrown together and the lieutenant and captain had signed the route sheet but had not read the report. I called the captain and asked him if he had read the report about the guy slugging the inmate. We talked and I told him that I was sending it back and someone needed to deal with the incident of the officer hitting the inmate. I told him that they needed to tell the guy what he did wrong (he was new) and complete the report properly like what they did to correct the correctional officer's actions. They got the report and took care of everything. The funny thing is the guy ended up being one of our better correctional officers but I don't think he would have got there if they didn't deal with his totally unacceptable behavior and included their actions into the report. I don't remember if he got wrote up but whatever they did caused him to use his head instead of his fists afterward!!! Even if the woman had made an aggressive motion toward him he was not allowed to slug her. He could have "taken her to the ground and cuffed her" but he couldn't fight her. And the woman was just walking fast; she had not taken an aggressive action.

I can tell you right now that most people working in my position would have let it go and let their boss review the report. That didn't happen when I started there and that's why I was given those kinds of duties which didn't allow me to move on to something else. But that was the way they did it in my day. Later on we heard the younger people say they didn't pay them enough to do the work correctly AND they got away with it!!!!

When you are dealing with your health would you rather deal with your doctor or some person who didn't want to do their job? If the insurance company makes a decision you don't like, your doctor and/or you can grieve it. If it isn't taken care of, then you can get another doctor and another insurance company. But if there is only one insurance you have no choice.

One other thing. There are some instances that are not viable when the person is too sick or too old. However, deciding whether a person can have a procedure or some treatment based on how long they can expect to live when there is every reason whatever is done will take care of the problem is unconscionable.

My dog is sitting her licking my arm while I type and it bothers me! And she knows it. She wants me to get up and give her a dog treat. I've held out long enough. I need her to stop. lol

anotheridiot · Guru

Maribegood wrote:
BTW, if you want to know why drugs cost so much, forget the advertising. I've been on the ground floor of the developing end. We do things that add millions to the final cost that satisfy the FDA and have an absolute 0 value added cost in terms of health and safety. The advertising comes in because those millions have to be made back before the patent expires and the generics can make them.

I pretty much figured they cost so much by watching regular tv channels and the five advertisements per hour from lawfirms that will get you compensated if you took the birth control pill yaz or anything derived from it and ended up with a side effect. There were three different medications last nite alone for different symptoms, yaz was the only birth control one. You took something a doctor recommended, whether because he knew you needed it or was sold on the medication by some representative. When we were in a HMO, there were doctors leaving Illinois just because of malpractice legislation.

Nobody force feeds birth control or medication trying to help you or keep you from an operation. The state has family planning so there is a lesser burden on society when the kids are in the emergency room with no chance of paying, but if a man and woman decide they want sex with less of a chance of reproducing, they are getting someting for that risk. I dont want to excuse the drug companies, but I sure think most of the cost is for their lawyers.

PAMD · Senior Member

Maribegood wrote:
But are doctors who are a quarter of a million dollars in the hole when they get out of med school going to be able to make their loan payments on 40 dollars a patient? I honestly have no idea if it is doable, I'm asking for real.

Believe it or not, most physicians would thrive on a $40.00 per patient payment plan (per simple visit). We would be able to reduce the number of employees necessary for the filing of insurance paperwork by an estimated 60%. Hell, as a specialist, my HMO "capitation" payments averaged $32.00 when no office procedure was necessary, and as for Medicaid, try $11.32 per average patient visit. About three years ago, I performed an emergency heminephrectomy on an eleven year-old, who was covered under Pennsylvania's Medicaid plan. They used to list the service provider as "Oak Tree" Insurance Disbursement Corporation.

My payment, en total, for a four hour surgery, and seven office visits, not including follow-up care: $445.00 and change. I paid my CURN (certified Urology Registered Nurse) more than half of that fee for assisting with the procedure. This marked the beginning of my decision making process, which culminated in the sale of my practice, and semi-retirement/employment by the VAMC System.

Most of my income was provided by those covered by Medicare, and with those patients, I ALWAYS accepted CMS payments as full payment - for those with no co-insurance (Medigap) coverage.

The balance of a physician's income would be provided by the performance of more "enhanced" procedures, diagnostics, and more involved care, when deemed necessary. This portion of my postulation would not take into account a payment scheme necessary for the provision of specialty care.

Tort reform will also be a necessary/integral component of any successful third-party scheme.

Izzy Ryder · Senior Member

Sorry, couldn't help myself..

PAMD · Senior Member

"Gilltey as charged"......

rumple · Senior Member

SherryRichard wrote:
My dog is sitting her licking my arm while I type and it bothers me! And she knows it. She wants me to get up and give her a dog treat. I've held out long enough. I need her to stop. lol

Maybe you just need to borrow Sherry's dog, Doc. (Or lick your own arm, if you're allergic to dogs.)

1Moparsick0 · Guru

Wow..... that one flew over my head... Definately the train has high-balled out the station an crashed into the wall.

dahammer_57 · Senior Member

Breaking news. Several former AC cast members have been spotted by paparazzi recently.

Sr was spied auditioning for Simon Coweel and X-factor to fill the anticipated soon to be vacant Britney Spears chair.

Image.aspx?uuid=db23d622-6d1f-4912-95bf-4a70555a281b&w=628&h=498&so=2

Mikey was seen filling a canvas with his usual flair for an upcoming exhibit at his Wolfgang Gallery in Montgomery Ny.

Image.aspx?uuid=88510d30-a8c1-4e97-b29e-0922d934a831&w=628&h=498&so=2

For all those who had your suspicions, Jr was finally caught smoking on camera.

Image.aspx?uuid=789fb12b-cf98-4920-91dc-dff35f0973a0&w=628&h=498&so=2

Jason Foole has not gone far, he is still putting his best idears down on paper back at OCC.

Image.aspx?uuid=5c76a5b9-f1bd-4e3c-8767-c7a24873ab99&w=628&h=498&so=2